XBox One AND PS4 Discussion

[LAking]

If you look at the history of different controllers, none of them had staying power to displace the control pad.

We've had power gloves, the Wii wand, the WiiU tablet and so on. The Wii had some limited success but the fad wore off.

By the time the X1 and Kinect2 were introduced, the Wii and the Kinect1 had been around 5 years, so this notion that there would be some radical new gameplay mechanics to come because Kinect2 was an evolutionary improvement over the Kinect1 was dubious to begin with.

All MS could show were tech demos and dance games. The developers weren't inspired nor interested. The big games were selling millions of copies without having to support motion controls. The smaller developers would have to spend more money and limit their potential market in order to support the Kinect2.

Meanwhile, the Kinect2 like all other motion control schemes couldn't even match the performance of control pads because of the latency.

No matter how much they tried to claim that the K2 was about game innovation, the truth was that they hoped it would revolutionize non-gaming UI, the TV control and such, the way multitouch revolutionized phones and mobile devices. That was the home run they were swinging for, not redefining gaming but reaching the non-gaming audience and redefining how they consume media.

Now all they can do is try to salvage the brand and probably watch others try to bring new UI to the living room.

While I agree that MS wanted to change how we consumed media I don't think it's fair to ay that gaming wasn't really a part of their plans. No one said you have to displace the controller, but it would be kind of nice to see voice or motion controls used to enhance that experience. Like I've mentioned before, I would have loved to have used voice commands to bark out on-the-fly line changes in NHL while being able to keep my fingers on the other key gameplay buttons. You could use stuff like that for just about any sports game when calling out plays and such, or when telling AI teammates what to do in a tactical shooter.

Here's yet another article making the same points mentioned in the Forbes article I linked to above. This one is a little more scathing. http://www.cnet.com/news/why-the-death- ... -all-lose/

[skinsfan]

Look, they thought they had a years' head start on Sony. Thus, the DRM,mandatory Kinect,always on/always connected,no used games stuff. It's very apparent that they thought they could shove all of this down peoples' throats with no blowback by being first out of the chute. Bad intel on their part. Sony launching in Fall '13, wrecked those plans.
It didn't take marketing genius for Sony to not be all of those negative things and just launch a more powerful unit at a hundred dollar discount.
Now you have reversal after reversal,price cut after price cut,changing Gold,etc. all just to match what Sony has in place already. How will they match the Playstation Now streaming service?
How will they recoup their $400 million investment in being your preferred fantasy football portal? This is the most interesting console launch/war ever. Very interesting stuff.

[Danimal]

Look, they thought they had a years' head start on Sony.

Where did you hear this? Can you provide a link as I've never read that.

Thus, the DRM,mandatory Kinect,always on/always connected,no used games stuff. It's very apparent that they thought they could shove all of this down peoples' throats with no blowback by being first out of the chute. Bad intel on their part. Sony launching in Fall '13, wrecked those plans.

Again no idea where you got this info they thought the were a year ahead. I'll also make the point again MS learned a valuable lesson that anyone who is a fan of the hobby should be concerned about. I've said this multiple times in this thread and I saw in the last week at least 3 article echoing my point. MS, whether you liked their ideas or not, TRIED to deliver something new. Some ideas were good, many were bad but they tried. Sony gave us a hardware upgrade.

This hobby is not in good shape when the masses just want the same thing with a little better hardware and pretty graphics. In retrospect it should of been plainly obvious the rehashed COD, Battlefields, Maddens and numerous other games should of told them people just want incremental upgrades.

It didn't take marketing genius for Sony to not be all of those negative things and just launch a more powerful unit at a hundred dollar discount.

Not including the camera and the $100 price difference was what did it. The more powerful hardware thing is much to do about nothing. If your counting a few lines of pixels to choose your gaming platform, if that is your criteria you should be gaming on a PC.

Now you have reversal after reversal,price cut after price cut,changing Gold,etc. all just to match what Sony has in place already.

They had no choice at this venture, we will know soon enough if it makes a difference. If their sales increase in June and July this will no longer matter to anyone except people like me who paid for something they didn't want.

How will they match the Playstation Now streaming service?

What service? I mean I'm sure they will discuss it again at E3 but I haven't seen half the things Sony promised. Can i jump into my friends game and take control? Can I stream and play older titles? etc. etc. Empty promises until something is you know, actually released.

By the time the next generation comes around, I will likely be too old to care. If I was younger I would be very concerned what this console launch did to the health of this industry.

[XXXIV]

I think this Forbes article sums it up for me: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevange ... ible-news/

Here's yet another article making the same points mentioned in the Forbes article I linked to above. This one is a little more scathing. http://www.cnet.com/news/why-the-death- ... -all-lose/

Two great articles. Both nail it from where Im sitting.

[XXXIV]

Francis!!! always nails it.

[WillHunting]

Francis!!! always nails it.

That's about the only thing he will ever nail.

[skinsfan]

April NPD numbers are eye opening for Xbone;
March (5 weeks) - 311,000 units sold -->62,200 units per week
April (4 weeks) - 115,000 units sold -->28,750 units per week

That is before the hail mary Kinectless SKU announcement.

[skinsfan]

Look, they thought they had a years' head start on Sony.

Where did you hear this? Can you provide a link as I've never read that.

Thus, the DRM,mandatory Kinect,always on/always connected,no used games stuff. It's very apparent that they thought they could shove all of this down peoples' throats with no blowback by being first out of the chute. Bad intel on their part. Sony launching in Fall '13, wrecked those plans.

Again no idea where you got this info they thought the were a year ahead. I'll also make the point again MS learned a valuable lesson that anyone who is a fan of the hobby should be concerned about. I've said this multiple times in this thread and I saw in the last week at least 3 article echoing my point. MS, whether you liked their ideas or not, TRIED to deliver something new. Some ideas were good, many were bad but they tried. Sony gave us a hardware upgrade.

This hobby is not in good shape when the masses just want the same thing with a little better hardware and pretty graphics. In retrospect it should of been plainly obvious the rehashed COD, Battlefields, Maddens and numerous other games should of told them people just want incremental upgrades.

It didn't take marketing genius for Sony to not be all of those negative things and just launch a more powerful unit at a hundred dollar discount.

Not including the camera and the $100 price difference was what did it. The more powerful hardware thing is much to do about nothing. If your counting a few lines of pixels to choose your gaming platform, if that is your criteria you should be gaming on a PC.

Now you have reversal after reversal,price cut after price cut,changing Gold,etc. all just to match what Sony has in place already.

They had no choice at this venture, we will know soon enough if it makes a difference. If their sales increase in June and July this will no longer matter to anyone except people like me who paid for something they didn't want.

How will they match the Playstation Now streaming service?

What service? I mean I'm sure they will discuss it again at E3 but I haven't seen half the things Sony promised. Can i jump into my friends game and take control? Can I stream and play older titles? etc. etc. Empty promises until something is you know, actually released.

By the time the next generation comes around, I will likely be too old to care. If I was younger I would be very concerned what this console launch did to the health of this industry.

Other than Kinect voice commands,their ideas pretty much sucked. Some people want to play games in 1080p,believe it or not. The perception that PS4 is more powerful is also key here.
Playstation Now is in beta and isn't vaporware. It simply allows you to play older titles via streaming on PS3/PS4. The service will be per title or a monthly "all you can eat" plan.
But yeah,overall health of industry right now is troubling to be sure.

[Danimal]

Other than Kinect voice commands,their ideas pretty much sucked. Some people want to play games in 1080p,believe it or not. The perception that PS4 is more powerful is also key here.
Playstation Now is in beta and isn't vaporware. It simply allows you to play older titles via streaming on PS3/PS4. The service will be per title or a monthly "all you can eat" plan.
But yeah,overall health of industry right now is troubling to be sure.

So you choose not to answer my question about the whole MS thought they had a head start? I'd say some of their ideas were bad, others were good but not a single one of them was communicated well. Sony went with the whole pro gamer stance and have we not learned the mob is easily impressed <insert Gladiator scene here>

It's funny of all the grand ideas that Sony showcased last year the only one coming to fruition is the one that will cost the consumer more money. If one of the biggest pieces of news for E3 is a service I can pay to play PS2 and PS3 games that are upscaled... well then I'll regret moving to the next gen even more.

[Pete1210]

I'm a little late to the conversation but I'm pretty disappointed with this announcement. Like others have said, the Kinect is what made the XB1 truly "next gen". I don't own a next gen console yet but I was planning on going with XB1 first because of its Kinect features. I'm was excited about the prospect of using it to control media functions on the console and maybe being able to bark out line changes in future EA NHL games. Now I'm worried that support and future improvement of those features may go by the wayside.

You can still get XB1 with Kinect and enjoy all the next gen media features. They didn't just discontinue Kinect for XB1. They still want to sell consoles with Kinect and Kinect as a separate add-on. So don't you think they will continue to encourage developers to add Kinect features to games for XB1 like they did on the 360 (Skyrim, ME3, GR:FS). My interest is not Kinect only games, but like you mentioned using voice as an extra control where it works. We already got this in Madden 360 where (the optional) Kinect gave you the ability to call audibles. Hopefully the sports games will expand on this for PS4 and XB1.

Not including the camera and the $100 price difference was what did it. The more powerful hardware thing is much to do about nothing. If your counting a few lines of pixels to choose your gaming platform, if that is your criteria you should be gaming on a PC.

I agree with this. My guess is that Microsoft bet on PS4 being $500. The early sales numbers show that they need price parity and the most cost effective way to do that right now is by removing the mandatory Kinect. The problem is when the uneducated consumer walks into Bestbuy and asks which $400 console is more powerful. Pixels aside, so far the most impressive looking games IMO have been Forza and Ryse.

Re 1080p, neither XB1 (792p) or PS4 (900p) gets there on Watch Dogs.

[LAking]

You can still get XB1 with Kinect and enjoy all the next gen media features. They didn't just discontinue Kinect for XB1. They still want to sell consoles with Kinect and Kinect as a separate add-on. So don't you think they will continue to encourage developers to add Kinect features to games for XB1 like they did on the 360 (Skyrim, ME3, GR:FS). My interest is not Kinect only games, but like you mentioned using voice as an extra control where it works. We already got this in Madden 360 where (the optional) Kinect gave you the ability to call audibles. Hopefully the sports games will expand on this for PS4 and XB1.

I know that it's still an option, but developers will be less likely to put time and money into Kinect features when only a fraction of their potential customers have one. That's what has happened to pretty much every add-on peripheral ever made for consoles.

I certainly hope MS can somehow convince developers that it's still worth their time to add Kinect features to their games but I'm not entirely convinced that they will succeed.

[DivotMaker]

If I were a developer, I would have a hard time taking anything they say seriously with as many 180's they have committed so far with the One.....I highly doubt they could convince an Eskimo that ice is cold right now.....

[Danimal]

If I were a developer, I would have a hard time taking anything they say seriously with as many 180's they have committed so far with the One.....I highly doubt they could convince an Eskimo that ice is cold right now.....

I really don't think this matters one way or the other to developers. Yes there were a few vocal devs who were making Kinect games but seriously have we ever gotten a decent game for it? For the most part this is probably welcome news to devs, they were already making XB1 games and now their potential customers will likely grow.

Now if you changed the word developer to customer I would agree 1000%

[Aristo]

If I were a developer, I would have a hard time taking anything they say seriously with as many 180's they have committed so far with the One.....I highly doubt they could convince an Eskimo that ice is cold right now.....

I really don't think this matters one way or the other to developers. Yes there were a few vocal devs who were making Kinect games but seriously have we ever gotten a decent game for it? For the most part this is probably welcome news to devs, they were already making XB1 games and now their potential customers will likely grow.

Now if you changed the word developer to customer I would agree 1000%

Except that this entire game change is aimed at one specific market, and that is the 360 users that have not moved to next gen yet. Those are the gamers that never bought in to Kinect 2.0, but enjoy the hell out their 360s and Xbox Live. Last night I played some poker on the 360, and the main dashboard was a giant ad for the Kinectless One for $399 and another tile that linked you to a trailer and game info for Sunset Overdrive. If the SO lives up to expectations, it could easily be the Crackdown for this gen, because the only thing better than open world super hero mayhem, its doing it co-op with buddies.

Now we have Halo 5, the tearing down of the paywall, and E3 on the horizon. Microsoft has finally started making smart and logical moves, and just may pull off a reset of their console. Throw in some Gears, Fable, and Forza Horizon along with a $399 kinect that will start throwing you free game with your Xbox Live sub, and they may finally shut off the exodus.

Microsoft could still implode, but right now, we'll see how sony's E3 will go without Microsoft providing them free ammo.

[DivotMaker]

If I were a developer, I would have a hard time taking anything they say seriously with as many 180's they have committed so far with the One.....I highly doubt they could convince an Eskimo that ice is cold right now.....

I really don't think this matters one way or the other to developers. Yes there were a few vocal devs who were making Kinect games but seriously have we ever gotten a decent game for it? For the most part this is probably welcome news to devs, they were already making XB1 games and now their potential customers will likely grow.

Now if you changed the word developer to customer I would agree 1000%

Well, Devs HAD a 100% guarantee that Kinect would be a part of EVERY Xbox One experience. Any motivation that any Dev wanting to add Kinect functionality to their game is now gone as that 100% will likely drop to a similar % of Kinect 1 adoption to the 360. It may be slightly more than that due to the voice integration, but for games this is the final nail in the coffin for any hopes of robust Kinect functionality, especially in Golf games. The attach rate of the PS4 camera is currently estimated to be 15% and it is rumored that Sony will go forward without the Move peripheral if the information in the article linked below is any indication.....

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/co ... er-1127315

Xbox One Kinect vs PS4 Camera

A robust games list for Xbox One Kinect and PS4 Camera has been slow to materialize, even though Microsoft and Sony insisted on sticking with controller-free camera inputs.

Not sure what impact this has on Sony's motion-controlled games, but without a Move-like peripheral, I don't see the functionality improving over the original much, if at all. I am guessing I better set my expectations for motion-controlled games very low and see what happens in the future.....

[Teal]

Look, they thought they had a years' head start on Sony. Thus, the DRM,mandatory Kinect,always on/always connected,no used games stuff. It's very apparent that they thought they could shove all of this down peoples' throats with no blowback by being first out of the chute. Bad intel on their part. Sony launching in Fall '13, wrecked those plans.
It didn't take marketing genius for Sony to not be all of those negative things and just launch a more powerful unit at a hundred dollar discount.
Now you have reversal after reversal,price cut after price cut,changing Gold,etc. all just to match what Sony has in place already. How will they match the Playstation Now streaming service?
How will they recoup their $400 million investment in being your preferred fantasy football portal? This is the most interesting console launch/war ever. Very interesting stuff.

The only difference between MS reversals and changes and Sony's? Sony did it backstage while MS revealed their console...lol

[skinsfan]

Look, they thought they had a years' head start on Sony. Thus, the DRM,mandatory Kinect,always on/always connected,no used games stuff. It's very apparent that they thought they could shove all of this down peoples' throats with no blowback by being first out of the chute. Bad intel on their part. Sony launching in Fall '13, wrecked those plans.
It didn't take marketing genius for Sony to not be all of those negative things and just launch a more powerful unit at a hundred dollar discount.
Now you have reversal after reversal,price cut after price cut,changing Gold,etc. all just to match what Sony has in place already. How will they match the Playstation Now streaming service?
How will they recoup their $400 million investment in being your preferred fantasy football portal? This is the most interesting console launch/war ever. Very interesting stuff.

The only difference between MS reversals and changes and Sony's? Sony did it backstage while MS revealed their console...lol

Yep,an advanced placement course in how not to launch a console.

[Danimal]

Well, Devs HAD a 100% guarantee that Kinect would be a part of EVERY Xbox One experience. Any motivation that any Dev wanting to add Kinect functionality to their game is now gone as that 100% will likely drop to a similar % of Kinect 1 adoption to the 360. It may be slightly more than that due to the voice integration, but for games this is the final nail in the coffin for any hopes of robust Kinect functionality, especially in Golf games. The attach rate of the PS4 camera is currently estimated to be 15% and it is rumored that Sony will go forward without the Move peripheral if the information in the article linked below is any indication.....

Oh I agree but I really didn't know of many games that were being made that were must have Kinect games. I never wanted a Kinect and I was stupid enough to buy a XB1 because they said it was integrated into the system, obviously that was a lie.

[Aristo]

Well, Devs HAD a 100% guarantee that Kinect would be a part of EVERY Xbox One experience. Any motivation that any Dev wanting to add Kinect functionality to their game is now gone as that 100% will likely drop to a similar % of Kinect 1 adoption to the 360. It may be slightly more than that due to the voice integration, but for games this is the final nail in the coffin for any hopes of robust Kinect functionality, especially in Golf games. The attach rate of the PS4 camera is currently estimated to be 15% and it is rumored that Sony will go forward without the Move peripheral if the information in the article linked below is any indication.....

Oh I agree but I really didn't know of many games that were being made that were must have Kinect games. I never wanted a Kinect and I was stupid enough to buy a XB1 because they said it was integrated into the system, obviously that was a lie.

It is if you want to use it for TV. Along with the Kinect, the IR blasters that control your DVR is gone. Plus, without voice control, you are now using your controller every time you want to watch TV. Although a Harmony remote ought to be able to deal with that.

All I know is that I have no desire to pull the Kinect out, and my wife would be pissed if I did. At this point, it would be like deciding we are going to go without a DVR.

[dougb]

What's the compelling reason for gamers to jump to a next gen console at this point? The games library for both consoles is still very small and there are hardly any really compelling games available.

Doug

[Aristo]

What's the compelling reason for gamers to jump to a next gen console at this point? The games library for both consoles is still very small and there are hardly any really compelling games available.

Doug

New shiny. That's it. I still play more on the 360 than the One. That said, Forza, Ryse, Powerstar Golf, and Peggle 2 have all seen a ton of play time. It's not been a wasted machine by any stretch.

Also, I used the 360 for streaming media a lot, and that experience is significantly better on the One because of Kinect. It was better because my 360 was loud as hell, but I recently bought one of the 360 E's, and the thing is whisper quiet. We use it for HBO Go and all of my digital games.

But honestly, the PS3 and 360 are still great machines and most every game released is still coming to them. For purely playing games, next gen is not a great value yet.

[MizzouRah]

What's the compelling reason for gamers to jump to a next gen console at this point? The games library for both consoles is still very small and there are hardly any really compelling games available.

Doug

No reason whatsoever.. not sure why I even purchased an XB1 this early except I had the money at Christmas. I'm just playing NHL 14 on the x360 until NHL 15 comes out for XB1.

[tjung0831]

What's the compelling reason for gamers to jump to a next gen console at this point? The games library for both consoles is still very small and there are hardly any really compelling games available.

Doug

I don't really know but I did it twice when I bought my 2nd PS4!

[Feanor]

Can I stream and play older titles? etc. etc. Empty promises until something is you know, actually released.

The PS Now Beta has been going on for a while. It works pretty well even over wifi, although I wouldn't want to play anything too fast paced on it.

The only difference between MS reversals and changes and Sony's? Sony did it backstage while MS revealed their console...lol

There's zero evidence that Sony were ever working on a DRM scheme similar to the one MS were going to use for the Xbox One until almost the entire gaming community rejected it outright.

[skinsfan]

What's the compelling reason for gamers to jump to a next gen console at this point? The games library for both consoles is still very small and there are hardly any really compelling games available.

Doug

For FPS fans,Battlefield 4,now that its' been thoroughly de-bugged. It's a completely different and better game than last-gen version. Also, the definitive version of Titanfall.
For driving fans,Forza 5 in 1080p 60fps. For graphics whores,Infamous SS. Indie game fans get the better version of Pinball Arcade and the excellent Resogun.
For sports game fans,maybe not so much,but the Show is pretty damn awesome.