Any love for FIFA? Anyone?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:06 pm

Sean:
 
 Unlike Mo, I didn´t have to give FIFA a week to see it was s***: It took about 45 minutes for me to determine this game was the same s***, different year.
 
 Unfortunately, I slogged through more hours of this piece of crap for an upcoming review.
 
 FIFA´s faults are many.
 
 1. Every shot still is a laser.
 
 2. CPU midfielders do not play defense until you approach their box. It´s easy for human players to scythe through the CPU midfield, but the CPU becomes Fort Knox when you approach the box.
 
 3. Scripted gameplay. The CPU moved the ball on the floor up the center of the pitch nearly every time against me, even after I clogged the midfield. The CPU hardly ever crosses the ball in the midfield to attempt an attack from the other wing, and it NEVER back passes to regroup. Basically, it´s almost like EA used a hockey offense engine for FIFA.
 
 4. Game speed is too fast.
 
 5. Not enough fouls. And I couldn´t find anywhere to adjust the referee strictness.
 
 6. Off The Ball control is an utter waste of time. It´s unintuitive as hell to control, especially when you´re near the CPU box at the upper skill levels. The CPU closes so quickly around the box at the upper skill levels that you barely have enough time to press one button let alone three to activate Off The Ball.
 
 7. Player models are hideous. Players still look like blocky Quasimodos, and white dudes look like they´ve had skin grafts or second-degree burns on their extremities.
 
 Sean, multiplayer gaming hides a lot of AI flaws in any game, hence your bliss with FIFA.
 
 But the sad fact is that ESPN MLS Extratime 2002, which uses the Konami ISS Pro Evolution engine from 2000, is a much more realistic soccer game for the Xbox than FIFA 2004.
 
 Unlike NHL and MVP, FIFA remains a flogging EA Sports franchise. It really needs to be scrapped and started from scratch, as Winning Eleven is so far ahead that EA never will catch it.
 
 Man, you´ve jarred my brain. I need to write that FIFA 2004 review. It ain´t going to be pretty ...
 
 Take care,
 PK

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:21 pm

I haven´t played Fifa 2004 so I really can´t comment on the gameplay. However, it is possible there are those (like myself) who are not soccer aficionados and truly don´t understand the nuances of the game. Nor do we neccessarily care. It does sound though Sean has knowledge of the game as he has a favorite team, etc.
 
 All that said, some people just enjoy the the pick up and play of video games that others tend to shoot to the ground. Not being a hugely popular soccer fan, I´m sure I´d find enjoyment from FIFA. I think it´s good manufacturers put out those games that aren´t neccessarily "true sims" of the game. Gotta try and keep everyone happy, right? Now granted, I purchased WE because of all the glowing reviews. It truly is an excellent representation of soccer, but not all of us are looking for that. I think maybe EA has realized they´re not on the same page as Konami in terms of realism, but I´m guessing they don´t really care too much. The´re marketing their game to the less knowledgeable fan who likes the arcade style action it offers. It´s neither right or wrong.
 
 Sean, if you´re happy with Fifa 2004, more power to you. Glad you found a game you can enjoy, and most importantly not let others views sway you. I´m still tremendously happy with ESPN NHL. See what I know.
 
 Sorry for the rambling.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:38 pm

Dan:
 
 You´re right. Good perspective and points all around.
 
 I´m passionate as hell about soccer, so I want the most realism. I´m also a hockey freak, and it´s arguable that ESPN NHL is the most realistic hockey game out there -- except for the goalies -- yet I find it drier than a popcorn fart and no fun to play. Rivals and NHL are much more enjoyable for me.
 
 So indeed, everyone has different tastes and games that will match those tastes.
 
 So rock on, Sean: Glad you´re enjoying FIFA, even if it´s not the preference of nearly everyone else in here.
 
 We´re not the ones firing up the Xbox in your crib; you are. So your taste matters most. <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_smile.gif">
 
 Take care,
 PK [ This message was edited by: pk500 on 11-12-2003 09:38 ]

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:06 pm

This is all true. We all have the sport that we set the highest bar for (mine is football, American style), and it´s usually that sport that people tend to get the most outraged about when they see problems. I enjoy soccer, and I would own both FIFA and PES if that were an option, but as an Xbox owner it´s not. I´m certainly jealous of the PS2/Pcers who are getting the best soccer game out there; as a result of my platforms, the only Konami games I´ve been able to play were ISS64 (great game) and MLS (a pretty shoddy effort, for the most part).
 
 Basically I feel like the FIFA game engine is pretty solid at this point, which is why multiplayer can be so satisfying. I can see the legitimate grips with the AI>

Post by **Jared** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:00 pm

I respectfully disagree. I think some of the gameplay problems in FIFA are so big that even a casual gamer can notice it and be bothered by it. Passing is a huge problem. EVERY ground pass (x button) is directly to feet. EVERY player can take the ball away with the stab tackle button. Differences between teams are minimal at best. To quote my <A HREF="http://www.digitalsportspage.com/module ... 119&page=3" TARGET="_blank">FIFA review</A>:
 
 <blockquote>
 The problems in FIFA 2004´s gameplay are not minor. For instance, imagine if in Madden the quarterback never hit the wide receiver on its pattern, but instead threw the ball to the spot where the receiver was when the quarterback released the ball. Or imagine if using a tackle button took down any player, regardless of their ability to make moves or break tackles. Or imagine if there was little to no difference playing against the Buccaneer defense, versus playing the Lions defense. Or imagine if there was little difference between Steve McNair and Anthony Wright. These problems would not be accepted in Madden. But problems that are just as big are in nearly every part of FIFA´s gameplay.
 </blockquote>
 
 And there are tons of other AI bugs and problems that are just annoying as hell.
 
 The game is playable. But the game could be so much more enjoyable IF these simple problems were addressed.
 
 Oh, and Sean. Even though you don´t have a PS2, you can purchase Pro Evolution Soccer 3 for the PC. You need a somewhat fast computer, but it´s fun and is a direct port of the PS2 title.

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:59 pm

Yes it´s true that passes are to the feet, but you can lead a pass in front and have a guy run to the ball. It´s not as ideal as being able to put the ball anywhere in space, but in practice you can do most of the things that you could do on the pitch (it´s not unlike having icon passing in football as opposed to having a read n´ lead system of the sort seen in Fever- it´s an approximation of the experience, but not an unreasonable one).
 
 You may be right on the stab tackle, but I make a point to use it rarely or never- I am able to take the ball away at a reasonable rate by simply manning up and playing good defense and/or playing the passing lanes. And I do detect differences in the ability to maintain possession between good players and bad players (at the very least, when I´m dribbling with a good player I will pick up a lot of free kicks when defenders make a play on the ball).
 
 As for PES, I have a Mac and minimal gaming ability, so it´s really not an option.
 
 I´m not saying that FIFA doesn´t have problems. But the last two versions have represented a quantum leap from the crap that was FIFA 2001-2. Because I don´t get a chance to play PES, perhaps the flaws are less obvious to me for lack of a game to compare it to.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:59 am

Sean you are right, the game is better than the last two year´s. But the problem is improvement doesn´t mean much. The improvements off the field aren´t enough to make the game rival PES/WE.
 
 I really want to like the game but it doesn´t get football right.
 
 Listen if you have the cash, do yourself a favor and try to get a PS2 for WE7:I. Ya granted it doens´t have all the leagues like FIFA and editing that game isn´t going to be like PES-PC or WE7 but I´m sure it alone is enough to make you play it.
 
 It seems crazy to thing $180 purchase is enough to warrant getting only one game but the game is truly unreal. It´s quite possibly the best sports game made today, (non-text based).

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:15 pm

I just tried FIFA on a brief GameFly rental. Played a bit of a quick match and tried going online without really knowing all the controls and I got killed, where the guy easily got passes into the box. I wasn´t really tackling or using the sprint either.
 
 Played a few games of practice and career mode. With the normal pass (X), I was getting annoyed because I could string several together but when I kick it to one of the forwards like Beckham, he´d kick the ball out of bounds as soon as he got the ball. Later I realized that the only way to have any chance of getting passes approaching the opponent´s box was to use the square pass, which lobbed it up. I got goals by centering the lob pass and having Ronaldo rocket a few goals.
 
 There was a third pass option, using the triangle, which I could hold down to kick ahead of the targeted forward or center. But these invariably got intercepted whereas the X pass always got by defenders.
 
 The right analog stick moves and the sprint option really did nothing to get these superstar players by the defenders. Combined with the limitations of the passes, there really was no rhythm I could get into moving the ball except in midfield. As soon as you approached the box, all that disappeared.
 
 Now, if you could pass better or just dribble by the defense, I suppose there could be too much scoring. But better that than these 1-0 games. Yeah I know that´s soccer but whatever.
 
 I could tolerate the low score but the only scoring chances I could develop was what I described earlier. Maybe if I played a lot more, I would have found more variety of ways to score.
 
 I did like the atmosphere of the games in career mode and the presentation. But not enough to keep the game longer than a couple of days when I could rent other games.

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:06 pm

You really have to make sure you have good space when passing, particularly down around the box. The freestyle dribbling moves are effective as long as you are using them to create space, not to try and beat the defender. I generally use them to either get wide on the defender for a run or to back the ball out into a position where I can pass to a man making a run. You just have to make sure you concentrate on maintaining possession first and foremost when in the attack. At the very least, you get a lot of opportunities to run set plays, and I have had a very good scoring percentage off the sets.
 
 I´ve actually also found it helps when you check out the tactics section of team management and see how your team is set up to play. I was struggling with Roma until I saw they were set up for long ball attacking- since then I have been sending more balls downfield through the air and having better success with them.
 
 My last four games were a tourney with Roma, a home and home against AC Milan, and then one against Inter. I lost the first game 2-0, came back and won the next one 4-1, lost to Inter 5-1, and finished up with a 3-2 loss. The games had a really nice variety to them.

Post by **Jared** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:17 am

Sean,
 
 If you have a chance to play PES3/WE7, try it. If I had never played this series, I wonder what my opinion on FIFA 2004 would have been. I might have liked it more....but after playing WE7, it just isn´t in the same league.
 
 Regards

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:39 am

The thing about the WE/PES series is that they need to get the licenses.
 
 Can you imagine playing an American football game without NFL and NFLPA licenses? I think it was a Mike Ditka game for the Genesis which didn´t have either. Could have had the best gameplay ever but it just wouldn´t be the same playing as some fictitious team with made-up players.

Post by **Jared** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:36 pm

I think the thing that makes it playable is that it has real players. So I don´t mind if all the players are there but the name is wrong. If the players were fictitional as well....that would be extremely difficult to deal with.

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:16 pm

Jared- I´m a Mac/Xbox household, so it´s not really a possibility. I have played earlier incarnations of Konami soccer, ISS64 and MLS, and I think it is safe to say that FIFA has caught up with the gameplay in those titles (which doesn´t mean that FIFA can necessarily touch WE7 or PES3). And it´s true- having all the licenses helps a lot when it comes to reconciling some of the game´s shortcomings.
 
 I can´t really think of an equivalent sport where there is one game that is so far ahead of the rest of the field...maybe basketball and ID, where I certainly will not go back and play ESPN at all after having played ID, graphics or no graphics.