OT: "Golf Talk" - Tournaments, Pro's, Equip., etc.

[JackB1]

This is what adults think that hitting it straight is good...well it is except for kids. When kids start golf the worst thing you can do is have them develop a swing that tries to hit it straight. The reason is that it's harder to develop a power swing than it is a "straight" swing. You can always learn to straighten out a golf ball but it's next to impossible to develop power late in development.

Kids should just be taught to hit the ball as hard as they can this way their golf muscles learn to hit it hard. Second they learn timing with a power swing which means everything from hips clearing, torque from the wrists in the downswing, and the other things associated with a power swing.

If I had a kid starting out golf or developing I would just tell him or her to swing as hard as they can and to work on short game. Otherwise you stunt the ability to develop power.

This whole post makes ZERO sense from a logic standpoint. I'll teach my kid to hit straight first, then I'll stick him in the gym.

Well I'll cash in my single digit handicap. The gym has minimal effect on the golf swing. Power comes from torque that creates club head speed. Increasing gym strength can have the opposite effect because you may be stronger but your mobility is less.

Second the best long hitters in the game have incredible timing and create a lot of torque because of a large shoulder turn, cocked hands on the downswing and speedy hips where they turn quickly to generate power. If a kid doesn't learn these things and times it well it's next to impossible to learn this later on as the golf muscles and timing have developed and you have to relearn power which is almost impossible.

Once kids have reached high school, or if they get better and take lessons from teaching golf professinals, then the kids can reign in all that power. And they can swing at 80% or 90% where even hitting it easier results in a 290 yard drive but it's down the fairway. Whereas a straight hitter has to dig deep and take an unnatural swing to try to hit it 20 yards farther when needed.

In golf it's easier to learn to hit it straight than it is to hit it far.

I think it's smarter to teach kids to swing "smooth" and "fluid". Teaching them to hit the ball "as hard as they can" makes no sense and leads to trying to "muscle" the ball. It doesn't take much raw strength to hit a golf ball a good distance. Pure contact on the sweet spot is the most important thing. That's why they teach begginners to just swing from "3 to 9 o' clock" before that dive into a full swing.

[JRod]

This whole post makes ZERO sense from a logic standpoint. I'll teach my kid to hit straight first, then I'll stick him in the gym.

Well I'll cash in my single digit handicap. The gym has minimal effect on the golf swing. Power comes from torque that creates club head speed. Increasing gym strength can have the opposite effect because you may be stronger but your mobility is less.

Second the best long hitters in the game have incredible timing and create a lot of torque because of a large shoulder turn, cocked hands on the downswing and speedy hips where they turn quickly to generate power. If a kid doesn't learn these things and times it well it's next to impossible to learn this later on as the golf muscles and timing have developed and you have to relearn power which is almost impossible.

Once kids have reached high school, or if they get better and take lessons from teaching golf professinals, then the kids can reign in all that power. And they can swing at 80% or 90% where even hitting it easier results in a 290 yard drive but it's down the fairway. Whereas a straight hitter has to dig deep and take an unnatural swing to try to hit it 20 yards farther when needed.

In golf it's easier to learn to hit it straight than it is to hit it far.

I think it's smarter to teach kids to swing "smooth" and "fluid". Teaching them to hit the ball "as hard as they can" makes no sense and leads to trying to "muscle" the ball. It doesn't take much raw strength to hit a golf ball a good distance. Pure contact on the sweet spot is the most important thing. That's why they teach begginners to just swing from "3 to 9 o' clock" before that dive into a full swing.

You guys don't really know what you are talking about. As they get older they'll learn timing and be able to control distance. Like I said it's harder to gain power as you get older than it is to gain control. For a kid the most important thing to is hit it hard early.

You think it's just about driving the ball. I'm also talking long irons, out of the rough, in bunkers and so on. It's much easier to play the game when you have the advantage of distance and strength. That doesn't mean every swing is out of control. It just means that the kid tries to hit as hard as he can instead.

[dbdynsty25]

Jrod, how many kids have you trained to be tour professionals? Thought so.

[JRod]

Jrod, how many kids have you trained to be tour professionals? Thought so.

Logical fallacy...so because I'm not a teaching pro I can have no opinion on it. Ya whatever...


Having been around teaching pros and being a low handicap golfer the theme is pretty simple and common. Even golf books by legendary teachers will say the same thing. Kids need to learn to hit it hard so that their muscles get used to the timing of the swing. Like I said, once the power sets in, it's almost impossible to gain it later on in life. Mostly because you will always be fighting the timing issue.

You guys don't really understand... hitting it hard doesn't mean you swing like John Daly what it means is that you have a set-up similar to Tiger's, Els, even Mickelson's and from there stay true to the fundamentals of the swing but always trying to generate as much club head speed as possible. There's no better time to figure this out than as a kid because their muscles can learn faster than an adult. Going to the gym will have minimal effect because golf is more about muscle memory and timing than it is pure strength. Some of the longest hitters I know never work out, it's just that they always have hit it hard and have timing down.

[Jackdog]

This is what adults think that hitting it straight is good...well it is except for kids. When kids start golf the worst thing you can do is have them develop a swing that tries to hit it straight. The reason is that it's harder to develop a power swing than it is a "straight" swing. You can always learn to straighten out a golf ball but it's next to impossible to develop power late in development.

Kids should just be taught to hit the ball as hard as they can this way their golf muscles learn to hit it hard. Second they learn timing with a power swing which means everything from hips clearing, torque from the wrists in the downswing, and the other things associated with a power swing.

If I had a kid starting out golf or developing I would just tell him or her to swing as hard as they can and to work on short game. Otherwise you stunt the ability to develop power.

He's hitting his driver around 250-260 yds now. He's power is fine. His freshman golf coach has done a wonderful job with his swing. Thanks for the advice though.

[Jackdog]

I don't want to be "that" guy that takes too long to hit and still sucks.

We have a guy at my club who is like that, we call him "wiggles". Whats even worse is he is a bad golfer but has advice to spew out like he knows WTF he is talking about.

[dbdynsty25]

Jrod, how many kids have you trained to be tour professionals? Thought so.

Logical fallacy...so because I'm not a teaching pro I can have no opinion on it. Ya whatever...

That's exactly my f*cking point...just because I haven't taught any touring pros, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about either. Do you just not realize when your make someone else's point for them? Brilliant.

[RobVarak]

Great, a flamewar in the golf thread. That's going to get banned next. No politics. No golf. It's like Republican hell!

[Jackdog]

Great, a flamewar in the golf thread. That's going to get banned next. No politics. No golf. It's like Republican hell!

[Jackdog]

I think it's smarter to teach kids to swing "smooth" and "fluid". Teaching them to hit the ball "as hard as they can" makes no sense and leads to trying to "muscle" the ball. It doesn't take much raw strength to hit a golf ball a good distance. Pure contact on the sweet spot is the most important thing. That's why they teach begginners to just swing from "3 to 9 o' clock" before that dive into a full swing.

I agree. I really don't want to ask my son to change his swing at this point. His freshman golf coach would s*** a brick if Dom went from shooting in the low to mid 40's to middle 60's because he swinging from his heels off the tee and in the fairways. I see no benefit from that at all. He's hitting fairways and greens constantly now. His putting needs the most work at this point.

[Jackdog]

Jrod, how many kids have you trained to be tour professionals? Thought so.

Logical fallacy...so because I'm not a teaching pro I can have no opinion on it. Ya whatever...

That's exactly my f*cking point...just because I haven't taught any touring pros, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about either. Do you just not realize when your make someone else's point for them? Brilliant.

I have a man crush on ya dawg.

[JRod]

Jrod, how many kids have you trained to be tour professionals? Thought so.

Logical fallacy...so because I'm not a teaching pro I can have no opinion on it. Ya whatever...

That's exactly my f*cking point...just because I haven't taught any touring pros, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about either. Do you just not realize when your make someone else's point for them? Brilliant.

f*** you are a cancer on these boards.

[JRod]

I think it's smarter to teach kids to swing "smooth" and "fluid". Teaching them to hit the ball "as hard as they can" makes no sense and leads to trying to "muscle" the ball. It doesn't take much raw strength to hit a golf ball a good distance. Pure contact on the sweet spot is the most important thing. That's why they teach begginners to just swing from "3 to 9 o' clock" before that dive into a full swing.

I agree. I really don't want to ask my son to change his swing at this point. His freshman golf coach would s*** a brick if Dom went from shooting in the low to mid 40's to middle 60's because he swinging from his heels off the tee and in the fairways. I see no benefit from that at all. He's hitting fairways and greens constantly now. His putting needs the most work at this point.

For some reason I thought your son was younger, at 14 then no it's not a good idea. He'll gain more yardage as he gets taller and has a longer arc. But sadly these high schoolers are pounding it 300 yards regularly with consistency.

In the last decade the modern drivers and balls have added about 40 yards in driving distance. Irons have seem some improvement but blades are about the same.

The balls are phenomenal these days as you can have distance, feel and hold golf shots like never before.

Anyway I would say if a child takes up the game from about 5-11 then there whole goal should be having fun and pounding the ball. Accuracy is gained with improved motor skills.

[dbdynsty25]

f*** you are a cancer on these boards.

So, because your reading comprehension needs work, I'm a cancer. Talk about a logical fallacy. You should have been a hardass on "Reading Rainbow" instead of sports...it would have been a better investment in your future.

I'm done with you now, so no worries on getting any more responses. Blast away...you should be able to be pretty accurate since you're a single handicapper.

[Jared]

I find it hard to believe that on the same forum where people are doing lots of good things for Naples, we can have a flame war about GOLF SWINGS. It's just pathetic.

Oh, and the usual.

DB - Don't be a forum d*****bag (though I'm sure you will continue it at some point in the future)

JRod - Don't freak out when people act like douches (although I'm sure it will happen again)

It's the same people in the same situations over and over again, with just enough frequency to annoy, yet not enough frequency to merit long term bans (perhaps). I'm getting bored with it; and may either just tighten the screws with moderation and get rid of the usual suspects for good (i.e. Parker/BDoughty type bans), or just get rid of moderation altogether and see what happens. It's really a waste of my time to keep dealing with the same people involved in the same stupidity - so either way is a solution from my viewpoint.

[JackB1]

FWIW, you can debate the "best" way to teach kids or even golf in general, all day long and get dozens of different viewpoints on this.
I am not sure there really is one "best way", but personally I wouldn't have kids worry about "power" at all. Power comes naturally when you swing freely and fluidly and hit the ball on the sweet spot with a descending blow (irons). Learning to take a divot AFTER the ball was one of the hardest things for me to learn, but when you get that down, you are on your way.

[Jackdog]

FWIW, you can debate the "best" way to teach kids or even golf in general, all day long and get dozens of different viewpoints on this.
I am not sure there really is one "best way", but personally I wouldn't have kids worry about "power" at all. Power comes naturally when you swing freely and fluidly and hit the ball on the sweet spot with a descending blow (irons). Learning to take a divot AFTER the ball was one of the hardest things for me to learn, but when you get that down, you are on your way.

Yep. Good post.

[fsquid]

I'm 30 and have no power. I drive the ball a whopping 220. Then again, I was self taught.

[JackB1]

I'm 30 and have no power. I drive the ball a whopping 220. Then again, I was self taught.

I'll take 220 in the middle of the fairway over 250 in the trees every time

Fsquid.....I suggest you have a Pro instructor look at your swing. There are probably a few easy tweaks that can easily get you some extra yardage. Just another 10-15 yards and you willl have all the distance you need.

Some ideas:

1) keep that left arm as straight as possible (without locking it). A bent left arm is a real power drainer. Better to have a shorter backswing with a straight left arm, then a full one with a bent left arm.

2) pickup a training device called the "Speed Stick". It looks like this....http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Speed-Stick-Gol ... 439eae710e

Use it daily if possible and your swing speed will go up. I showed an increase of about 20%. More speed = more distance.

3) Work on cocking the wrists at the top of the backswing and try delaying their release on the downswing. This is a HUGE power source.
This is called "lag" in the golfswing and is key to power.

4) Start down smooth and slow.....not jerky. You want your maximum swingspeed to come right at or even slightly after impact. Let your body wind up and unwind naturally. Don't "muscle" the ball. Just think "smooth" and try and widen your arc a little.

[fsquid]

Thanks for the tips. Now can anyone tell me how I can convince my wife that I need to play golf instead of hanging out with the kiddos?

[Jackdog]

Thanks for the tips. Now can anyone tell me how I can convince my wife that I need to play golf instead of hanging out with the kiddos?

Take the kids with you. They can look for lost balls. My son used to find 20 to 30 for me when he was younger. I'd make him parallel whatever hole I was on so I could keep an eye on him. He had a blast. I'd pay him a dime a ball. Range balls didn't count.

Hell we still have a boatload of golf balls from those days.

[Danimal]

Thanks for the tips. Now can anyone tell me how I can convince my wife that I need to play golf instead of hanging out with the kiddos?

I recommend seeing an actual instructor, anyone can throw out tips but not everyone has the same golf swing...nor should they.

If you get a guy who tries to make your swing like a check list out of a book then you're going to be all f***ed up. Find someone who will work with you.

A good instructor is going to spend your first session assessing your physical attributes and weakness. My first session with the pro I have used for 4 years now was simply flexibility and balance test, then a 40 minute conversation on my game, what physical issues I had.

I went from a 24.3 index 4 years ago to a 12.1 at the start of this season and there are very few tips I would give someone that were given to me outside of putting and chipping because they were tailored for my swing.

The bottom line is it's work, all year long to improve your golf game and that doesn't mean rounds and rounds of golf. I do drills 3 mornings a week, and I putt for an hour after my Saturday round. In the winter I see an instructor once a month for 2 hours, hit balls 2 times a week indoors. I think working in the winter is the best time to improve your game because generally you can't play rounds.

[Jackdog]

In the winter I see an instructor once a month for 2 hours, hit balls 2 times a week indoors. I think working in the winter is the best time to improve your game because generally you can't play rounds.

Couldn't agree more. Good points.

[dbdynsty25]

What the hell is Winter? I play golf year round.

[JackB1]

Thanks for the tips. Now can anyone tell me how I can convince my wife that I need to play golf instead of hanging out with the kiddos?

I recommend seeing an actual instructor, anyone can throw out tips but not everyone has the same golf swing...nor should they.

If you get a guy who tries to make your swing like a check list out of a book then you're going to be all f***ed up. Find someone who will work with you.

True, but you have to also watch out for the guys who are just trying to stretch out your lessons because it means more $$$ in their pockets.
But I agree, you have to find someone who will work with what you got....not try and rebuild your entire swing from scratch.