Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon May 17, 2010 3:13 pm

GTHobbes wrote:Not sure if it's already been posted, but I read last week that the PS3 version has some exclusive content -- in case it makes a difference for any 360/PS3 owners out there.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/14/red-d ... nt-on-ps3/

All my friends are going 360 for online play, so really not enticing enough for me.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon May 17, 2010 3:21 pm

The ps3 would have to have the whole damn game exclusive in order for me to forego XBL play...

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon May 17, 2010 3:29 pm

I've read conflicting reports of jaggies and screen tearing in the PS3 version. Not sure what to believe at this point. Guess I'll wait to hear what others are saying.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Mon May 17, 2010 3:50 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:I've been wanting this game since I read about a similar game that was supposed to come out for the PS2 that got cancelled. I can't think of the name of it now but Red Dead Redemption sounds like it's everything that game was supposed to be and way more. Anyone know the PS2 game I'm talking about?

That must have been Gunslinger. I'm in the same boat, and was bummed when it was cancelled.

IGN Gunslinger PS2 Preview

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon May 17, 2010 4:29 pm

TCrouch wrote:
ScoopBrady wrote:I've been wanting this game since I read about a similar game that was supposed to come out for the PS2 that got cancelled. I can't think of the name of it now but Red Dead Redemption sounds like it's everything that game was supposed to be and way more. Anyone know the PS2 game I'm talking about?
That must have been Gunslinger. I'm in the same boat, and was bummed when it was cancelled.

IGN Gunslinger PS2 Preview

That's the one, Terry. Good find. I can't believe it's been 10 years since hearing about that game. No doubt Red Dead Redemption will be way better than what Gunslinger would have been.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon May 17, 2010 4:29 pm

Reviews are out in lots of places, and are generally outstanding.

Eurogamer, still one of my favorite review sites, funnily comes up with the same two games that I have been feeling RDR may fall short of, for me personally:

The result is an exceptional Rockstar game, one that successfully re-clothes the Grand Theft Auto framework in an exciting, distinct and expertly realised scenario. But just how satisfying the formula remains after the exuberant destructiveness of Red Faction: Guerrilla, or the joyful, ad-hoc player stories born in the freedom of Just Cause 2's playpen, is increasingly under scrutiny. And even within Rockstar's own canon, there is little here for that smart young journalist to inform Liberty City about that it didn't already know. A magnificent eight, then. (8 out of 10 review)

Red Faction Guerrilla and Just Cause 2 (along with Crackdown) are my favorite sandbox games ever, and I'm not sure that RDR will provide me with the same fun factor. One of the things R* games seemed to do over time is focus more on storytelling and more linear gameplay, and by doing so they actually reduced player options both in how to proceed and in how to go about completing individual missions. Later GTAs (especially IV) started to take away some of the freedoms present in earlier versions of the games.

Regardless of all that, I expect this to be a great game that I'll really enjoy, and one that I may even go out to pick up tonight. I just don't expect the fun I get to transcend my experiences with JC2 or RF:G, though.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon May 17, 2010 5:25 pm

webdanzer wrote:Reviews are out in lots of places, and are generally outstanding.

Eurogamer, still one of my favorite review sites, funnily comes up with the same two games that I have been feeling RDR may fall short of, for me personally:

The result is an exceptional Rockstar game, one that successfully re-clothes the Grand Theft Auto framework in an exciting, distinct and expertly realised scenario. But just how satisfying the formula remains after the exuberant destructiveness of Red Faction: Guerrilla, or the joyful, ad-hoc player stories born in the freedom of Just Cause 2's playpen, is increasingly under scrutiny. And even within Rockstar's own canon, there is little here for that smart young journalist to inform Liberty City about that it didn't already know. A magnificent eight, then. (8 out of 10 review)

Red Faction Guerrilla and Just Cause 2 (along with Crackdown) are my favorite sandbox games ever, and I'm not sure that RDR will provide me with the same fun factor. One of the things R* games seemed to do over time is focus more on storytelling and more linear gameplay, and by doing so they actually reduced player options both in how to proceed and in how to go about completing individual missions. Later GTAs (especially IV) started to take away some of the freedoms present in earlier versions of the games.

Regardless of all that, I expect this to be a great game that I'll really enjoy, and one that I may even go out to pick up tonight. I just don't expect the fun I get to transcend my experiences with JC2 or RF:G, though.

This is how I feel about Rockstar games. The only thing that's truly open in the world but not the story. The story is linear and formulaic. Open mission, do mission, get next mission to the final boss battle.

My ultimate western game was one where you take the role of a lawman or outlaw, and where the west in your playground.

For me, I've reached a point, where games like RDR are too procedural. Even though it's open, the story line is still on rails. The game will sell by the ton and maybe I'm wrong but I think it's time for games to create open-ended story lines.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon May 17, 2010 5:30 pm

Wait so you guys want an open world game that doesn't have a story? JC2 is a great game and I can pick up different missions from the factions, but ultimately it has a linear story.

I'm not sure how you make a game that has a decent story that isn't linear when you drill down to it's most basic level.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon May 17, 2010 5:47 pm

Danimal wrote:Wait so you guys want an open world game that doesn't have a story? JC2 is a great game and I can pick up different missions from the factions, but ultimately it has a linear story.

I'm not sure how you make a game that has a decent story that isn't linear when you drill down to it's most basic level.

Now it should have a story but one where the user is able to generate a story from actions. If user does X, then Y happens. Not if you fail mission 35 you have to keeping doing it until you get to 36. More complex storytelling if anything with more user input to the story. Not just a bunch of missions stacked on top of each other.

LAking · Post by **LAking** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:19 pm

JRod wrote:
Danimal wrote:Wait so you guys want an open world game that doesn't have a story? JC2 is a great game and I can pick up different missions from the factions, but ultimately it has a linear story.

I'm not sure how you make a game that has a decent story that isn't linear when you drill down to it's most basic level.
Now it should have a story but one where the user is able to generate a story from actions. If user does X, then Y happens. Not if you fail mission 35 you have to keeping doing it until you get to 36. More complex storytelling if anything with more user input to the story. Not just a bunch of missions stacked on top of each other.

Sounds a lot like a choose your own adventure book, which is to say, a bad idea. Of course, as pure entertainment it's fine, but when it comes to storytelling I don't think it works.

This reminds me of Roger Ebert's argument that video games could not be "high art". One of his main points is this:

"Video games by their nature require player choices, which is the opposite of the strategy of serious film and literature, which requires authorial control."

While i don't agree that video games can't be art or aren't already breaking that barrier, I do agree to an extent with the idea that you lose most if not all of the emotional impact of a story when it becomes a choose your own adventure. It's why the ending/s of Bioshock and Bioshock 2 were such a huge letdown, or why Heavy Rain ultimately failed as well.

The purpose of Rockstar's open worlds are to give a sense of place more than just provide for a sandbox of entertainment, IMO.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon May 17, 2010 8:39 pm

Video game console=199.00

Extra controller=50.00

Typical video game=60.00

Bitching about a game you haven't even touched=priceless.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon May 17, 2010 9:02 pm

Teal wrote:Video game console=199.00

Extra controller=50.00

Typical video game=60.00

Bitching about a game you haven't even touched=priceless.

No one's bitching. So lay off.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon May 17, 2010 9:08 pm

LAking wrote:
JRod wrote:
Danimal wrote:Wait so you guys want an open world game that doesn't have a story? JC2 is a great game and I can pick up different missions from the factions, but ultimately it has a linear story.

I'm not sure how you make a game that has a decent story that isn't linear when you drill down to it's most basic level.
Now it should have a story but one where the user is able to generate a story from actions. If user does X, then Y happens. Not if you fail mission 35 you have to keeping doing it until you get to 36. More complex storytelling if anything with more user input to the story. Not just a bunch of missions stacked on top of each other.
Sounds a lot like a choose your own adventure book, which is to say, a bad idea. Of course, as pure entertainment it's fine, but when it comes to storytelling I don't think it works.

This reminds me of Roger Ebert's argument that video games could not be "high art". One of his main points is this:

"Video games by their nature require player choices, which is the opposite of the strategy of serious film and literature, which requires authorial control."

While i don't agree that video games can't be art or aren't already breaking that barrier, I do agree to an extent with the idea that you lose most if not all of the emotional impact of a story when it becomes a choose your own adventure. It's why the ending/s of Bioshock and Bioshock 2 were such a huge letdown, or why Heavy Rain ultimately failed as well.

The purpose of Rockstar's open worlds are to give a sense of place more than just provide for a sandbox of entertainment, IMO.

I think what I'm talking about is something like Knights of the Old Republic where the story was affected by choices the user makes but where the environment if which you interact could change. I think that's the next level of the FPS type of games. Don't know if we are there yet and according to that one review, RDR is more like GTA in that respect.

Now RDR's features do list this where choices can affect certain aspects of the game. So we'll see how that's played out.

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Mon May 17, 2010 9:34 pm

for anyone that cares:

http://www.buxr.com/deal/toys-r-us-free ... tore_51100

$25 gift card if you purchase RDR at TOYS R US, between 10am-2pm May 18th (tomorrow)

you have to be a Rewards Club member to receive the discount. If you're not you can sign up online (for free) on the Toys R Us site.

_

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon May 17, 2010 9:49 pm

LAking wrote: While i don't agree that video games can't be art or aren't already breaking that barrier, I do agree to an extent with the idea that you lose most if not all of the emotional impact of a story when it becomes a choose your own adventure. It's why the ending/s of Bioshock and Bioshock 2 were such a huge letdown, or why Heavy Rain ultimately failed as well.

I actually completely disagree, in that I always feel greater impact when player choice or gameplay performance affects the outcome of a scene or story than when I simply arrive there because that's what was pre-ordained.

In Heavy Rain, for instance, I had almost the 'perfect' ending except that one of the minor supporting characters died. I knew I made a mistake immediately in the scene as it was occurring, and knowing that *I* made that mistake (as a choice) made me far more emotionally invested in the aftermath of that scene than I would have been if that character bit it in a cutscene because the game authors decided it was simply that character's time to die.

It's funny in that I always used to consider myself in that group clamoring for games to have a better story. Seeing how gameplay sometimes gets sacrificed for that goal (take the now infamous GTAIV motorcycle chase where the target you are tailing is invincible until the game authors decided it was a good time and place for you to be able to kill him) I've realized that I in no way want story to trump the gameplay in a videogame. I haven't abandoned my original line of thinking, though...I've simply modified it:

I don't want videogames to HAVE better stories, I want videogames to BE better stories.

I think games like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus are on the right track here.

Anyway, looking forward to grabbing RDR in a couple of hours! (Yeah, I'm going out)

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:34 pm

webdanzer wrote:
LAking wrote: While i don't agree that video games can't be art or aren't already breaking that barrier, I do agree to an extent with the idea that you lose most if not all of the emotional impact of a story when it becomes a choose your own adventure. It's why the ending/s of Bioshock and Bioshock 2 were such a huge letdown, or why Heavy Rain ultimately failed as well.
I actually completely disagree, in that I always feel greater impact when player choice or gameplay performance affects the outcome of a scene or story than when I simply arrive there because that's what was pre-ordained.

In Heavy Rain, for instance, I had almost the 'perfect' ending except that one of the minor supporting characters died. I knew I made a mistake immediately in the scene as it was occurring, and knowing that *I* made that mistake (as a choice) made me far more emotionally invested in the aftermath of that scene than I would have been if that character bit it in a cutscene because the game authors decided it was simply that character's time to die.

It's funny in that I always used to consider myself in that group clamoring for games to have a better story. Seeing how gameplay sometimes gets sacrificed for that goal (take the now infamous GTAIV motorcycle chase where the target you are tailing is invincible until the game authors decided it was a good time and place for you to be able to kill him) I've realized that I in no way want story to trump the gameplay in a videogame. I haven't abandoned my original line of thinking, though...I've simply modified it:

I don't want videogames to HAVE better stories, I want videogames to BE better stories.

I think games like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus are on the right track here.

Anyway, looking forward to grabbing RDR in a couple of hours! (Yeah, I'm going out)

Well said and what I was going for.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:43 pm

Do you enjoy films? Books? No chance of either of those mediums being what you're desiring from video games. And, I must say, I prefer stories to be told by the people that write them, not manipulated by me.

I've heard talk before of 'interactive' movies where the audience would have a 'vote' button as to what happens next. I think that sucks.

There's quite enough of that pliability in RPG's like Mass Effect; there's simply no way to create a cohesive story when every contingency known to man must be taken into consideration because somebody else wants to jack with the story.

I just don't get that.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:52 pm

"Choose your own adventure" or "run around & beat-ass from point A to B" I could care less. I'm pumped for this game. Free Roam alone had me sold.

LAking · Post by **LAking** » Tue May 18, 2010 1:56 am

Teal wrote:Do you enjoy films? Books? No chance of either of those mediums being what you're desiring from video games. And, I must say, I prefer stories to be told by the people that write them, not manipulated by me.

I've heard talk before of 'interactive' movies where the audience would have a 'vote' button as to what happens next. I think that sucks.

There's quite enough of that pliability in RPG's like Mass Effect; there's simply no way to create a cohesive story when every contingency known to man must be taken into consideration because somebody else wants to jack with the story.

I just don't get that.

Exactly. I love film. It's my number one passion. No game that I have played has even come close to matching any of my favorite films in terms of emotional impact. Some games have had their moments but on a whole they aren't there yet.

Here is a great article about Heavy Rain and why it fails. I don't even agree with everything in the article but he makes good points.

http://www.destructoid.com/why-heavy-ra ... 5034.phtml

And back on topic. I'm trying to add RDR to my goozex queue but I'm not having any luck. The demand for this game has brought the goozex server to it's knees. I may just have to break down and buy it from the store.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue May 18, 2010 2:23 am

Played an hour. Fun. Fun. Fun.

I don't know if it's a good game or a great game or just ok...but damn is it fun!

PS How I know it's time to go to bed. I was randomly shooting armadillos and accidentally blasted my horse. LOL

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Tue May 18, 2010 1:59 pm

Heh. Funny, Rob. Did you skin the horse and sell the hide?

My lord, this game is awesome. Did a few missions last night, and some more today (I haven't played hookey for a video game in I don't know when), and this thing is legit. All the praise is legit. And I've barely scratched the surface...

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue May 18, 2010 2:58 pm

Teal wrote:Heh. Funny, Rob. Did you skin the horse and sell the hide?

Shhh. I don't want JackB on my trail!

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Tue May 18, 2010 3:37 pm

RobVarak wrote:
Teal wrote:Heh. Funny, Rob. Did you skin the horse and sell the hide?
Shhh. I don't want JackB on my trail!

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue May 18, 2010 3:47 pm

RobVarak wrote: Shhh. I don't want JackB on my trail!

Post of the Year!

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue May 18, 2010 5:26 pm

Game is a blast. The "free roam" is like an entirely 2nd game. I see some late nights in my immediate future.