Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Danimal »

Well I just got in the first major gun fight which was in the snow and it felt clunky as f***. First there is no indication where anyone is which is fine if you're going for 100% realism but then you get that dead aim shot or whatever it is called so forget realism. Moving in and out of cover, hell just moving from point A to point B felt horrible. Then guys are all around me shooting, none of them are hitting me.

I think it was supposed to be some grand moment, it all just felt so hard to control and so on rails that I came away frustrated. Like you Dan I'm hoping this is just early game stuff and the snow is making it so clunky because if combat is going to feel like this, I'm going to be concerned.
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by DChaps »

I played for a couple hours last night and also found the controls very clunky, but I am VERY bad at these kind of games, so I figured it was just me. However, I also thought the controls in the original RDR were very clunky as well. Granted, I was late to the party on the original, did not even play it until it came out in it's revised XB1X form, but the control, or lack thereof, felt similar. The graphics and environment are awesome though. Trying to shoot the deer in the snow with a bow I started to feel cold! :) The biggest challenge was figuring out how to get my bow off my horse. Must have taken me 5 minutes to figure out the control interface on that, and I still struggled the next time when I had to go get my rifle. I have played very few of the Rockstar games outside of the original GTA so I just assumed I am just bad at the controls because I have done so little of this type of 3rd person gaming. Still very cool. I definitely need to leave the subtitles on to understand what is going on.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Teal »

I adore this game. I took down a legendary bear, but not without taking serious damage. It played out alot like the bear attack in The Revenant. Very brutal, very cool. The only reason I stopped playing last night is because I need sleep... Lol.
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Sudz »

amazing so far.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by sportdan30 »

I'll admit, last night I was thinking to myself this game isn't for me. It's too slow paced, I'm fighting the controls somewhat, and I'm just getting more and more overwhelmed with things to do. Well, today I played some more and just relaxed instead of trying to rush through the game, and enjoyed it much much more. I'm going along with the story mode, but taking my time to stop and help others along the way, or beat/kill if need be. It's just an unbeliveable open world that feels alive and is breathtakingly beautiful. I'm quite sure I won't complete this game for many months, but that's ok. I'm loving being lost in the country and stumbling upon a desserted house, or stopping to talk to a couple men enjoying a camp fire. Then again, they weren't very happy I stopped and threatened me so I shot them dead and looted all their belongings.

I'm still coming to grips with having to keep yourself fed, bathing, taking care of your horse, etc. Some of these jobs feel monotonous, but add to the immersion of the game. I fully understand the crticisms of this seemingly cowboy life simulator, and I almost gave up too quickly. If you approach this game differently than any open world game before this, I think you'll appreciate it that much more.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Teal »

Uh, I think I logged about seven hours today. 8O I need an intervention...lol. I love that hunting MATTERS now. I love that people are dependent on you. I love that you can't run into a tree on a horse without injuring the horse and getting thrown from the saddle. I love that your horse needs to be reassured and calmed after a gun fight. I love that the general store had things you can actually take off the shelves. I love that your wanted level stays in the area you committed a crime. I love that bounty hunters go out looking for you. I love the fist fights. I love the early morning sun peeking through the trees. I love the very clear milky way at night. I love how many missions just kinda happen. I love playing without the radar. I may never get done, but I'll discover stuff I would have never otherwise seen going from point on the map to point in the map. I love how grouchy but begrudgingly kind Arthur is. I love that John Marston is in the game. I love this game. :D
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Diablo25 »

Teal wrote:Uh, I think I logged about seven hours today. 8O I need an intervention...lol. I love that hunting MATTERS now. I love that people are dependent on you. I love that you can't run into a tree on a horse without injuring the horse and getting thrown from the saddle. I love that your horse needs to be reassured and calmed after a gun fight. I love that the general store had things you can actually take off the shelves. I love that your wanted level stays in the area you committed a crime. I love that bounty hunters go out looking for you. I love the fist fights. I love the early morning sun peeking through the trees. I love the very clear milky way at night. I love how many missions just kinda happen. I love playing without the radar. I may never get done, but I'll discover stuff I would have never otherwise seen going from point on the map to point in the map. I love how grouchy but begrudgingly kind Arthur is. I love that John Marston is in the game. I love this game. :D
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by sportdan30 »

If there was ever a game that was a love/hate, this is it. This sums up my feelings to a t:

Taken from - https://kotaku.com/red-dead-redemption- ... 1829984369

"Red Dead 2 continues Rockstar’s longstanding rejection of the notions that input response should be snappy, that control schemes should be empowering and intuitive, and that animation systems should favor player input over believable on-screen action.

Pressing a button in Red Dead 2 rarely results in an immediate or satisfying response. Navigating Arthur through the world is less like controlling a video game character and more like giving directions to an actor. Get in cover, I’ll tell him, only to see him climb on top of the cover. Did I press the button too late? Did my button-press register at all? Dude, get down, I’ll cry, as his enemies begin to open fire. He’ll slowly wheel around then slide down to the ground with an elaborate stumbling animation. GET IN COVER, I’ll command, pressing the “take cover” button for what feels like the sixth time. He’ll haul his body weight forward, then finally crouch behind the wall.

Navigating this world is arduous, heavy, and inelegant. Even the simple act of picking an object up off the floor can require two or three moments of repositioning and waiting for an interaction prompt.

Over and over it favors believability and immersion over convenience. Looting an enemy body instigates an involved animation that takes several seconds to complete. Washing your character requires you to climb into a bath and individually scrub your head and each of your limbs."

And taken from - https://www.slantmagazine.com/games/rev ... demption-2

"For all of the significant improvements Red Dead 2 has made to an open-world template, however, it still maintains Rockstar’s bullish commitment to a clunky control scheme Studios like Naughty Dog have proven capable of giving characters a consequential sense of weight without making it a challenge to navigate around a table or requiring you to hold down buttons to move at acceptable speeds."

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by greggsand »

Loving the game (so far)! It reminds me much more of Shenmue (dreamcast) than GTA where the game is centered around the day-to-day, even the mundane (Shenmue was waiting for buses, getting a day job, being home by bedtime, hanging out at the arcade, etc...). On a side note, the voice acting is really great (kinda expected, but still), but the original music/soundtrack is really incredible!
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by dbdynsty25 »

The Shenmu comp is a great one. You really have to take your time and just cruise through the game.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Danimal »

I think press / people just don't want to admit the control system is a f***in abysmal mess and say anything negative about this game. Is Rockstar incapable of making a control system to modern standards? It's like they don't even give a s*** about improving their mechanics.

Yeah the story is great and the world is fantastic and there are 100 other great things you can say about this game but when your fighting controls it takes you out of the immersion of the game. Sure it's not bad when you're walking / riding around or doing just random mundane stuff, but I don't feel any sense of control during gun fights, I'm convinced the only reason they put in that slow motion shooting mechanic is to reduce the time of gunfights.

I was busy this weekend so my play was an hour here or there but when I had the whole afternoon free today, I just didn't even want to bother with this game. I'm kind of let down to be honest. I keep hoping the more I play it will grow on me but today was a bad sign.
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Aristo »

To be honest, I can't figure out why people are freaking out about the controls. They have not bothered me a bit. I'm not even sure what the complaint is.
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by DChaps »

Aristo wrote:To be honest, I can't figure out why people are freaking out about the controls. They have not bothered me a bit. I'm not even sure what the complaint is.
The complaints are exactly what sportdan and Danimal posted. Clunky, hard to figure out, and particularly not feeling in control or connected at all during gunfights. I guess if you have played Rockstar games for years and you are used to it maybe it just does not seem as bad. As someone who only played the original GTA and a little of the original RDR, it's just not intuitive. However, again I will admit I am just very bad at these kind of games. I am horrible at and subsequently did not enjoy The Division either, but in that game it was definitely that I was just bad at the controls and too slow. Not sure that I can get better at RDR2 controls. I am not going to give up on it yet though.
sportdan30 wrote:If there was ever a game that was a love/hate, this is it. This sums up my feelings to a t:

Taken from - https://kotaku.com/red-dead-redemption- ... 1829984369

"Red Dead 2 continues Rockstar’s longstanding rejection of the notions that input response should be snappy, that control schemes should be empowering and intuitive, and that animation systems should favor player input over believable on-screen action.

Pressing a button in Red Dead 2 rarely results in an immediate or satisfying response. Navigating Arthur through the world is less like controlling a video game character and more like giving directions to an actor. Get in cover, I’ll tell him, only to see him climb on top of the cover. Did I press the button too late? Did my button-press register at all? Dude, get down, I’ll cry, as his enemies begin to open fire. He’ll slowly wheel around then slide down to the ground with an elaborate stumbling animation. GET IN COVER, I’ll command, pressing the “take cover” button for what feels like the sixth time. He’ll haul his body weight forward, then finally crouch behind the wall.

Navigating this world is arduous, heavy, and inelegant. Even the simple act of picking an object up off the floor can require two or three moments of repositioning and waiting for an interaction prompt.

Over and over it favors believability and immersion over convenience. Looting an enemy body instigates an involved animation that takes several seconds to complete. Washing your character requires you to climb into a bath and individually scrub your head and each of your limbs."

And taken from - https://www.slantmagazine.com/games/rev ... demption-2

"For all of the significant improvements Red Dead 2 has made to an open-world template, however, it still maintains Rockstar’s bullish commitment to a clunky control scheme Studios like Naughty Dog have proven capable of giving characters a consequential sense of weight without making it a challenge to navigate around a table or requiring you to hold down buttons to move at acceptable speeds."

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Pete1210 »

The controls are a challenge to overcome at times. I was in the first town on horseback trying to greet someone, but instead jumped onto his horse to steal it. Another greeting button mishap ended up in a shooting. The actual shooting controls are not that awful.
I do love the cinematic camera for the longer rides.
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

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DChaps wrote: The complaints are exactly what sportdan and Danimal posted. Clunky, hard to figure out, and particularly not feeling in control or connected at all during gunfights. I guess if you have played Rockstar games for years and you are used to it maybe it just does not seem as bad. As someone who only played the original GTA and a little of the original RDR, it's just not intuitive. However, again I will admit I am just very bad at these kind of games. I am horrible at and subsequently did not enjoy The Division either, but in that game it was definitely that I was just bad at the controls and too slow. Not sure that I can get better at RDR2 controls. I am not going to give up on it yet though.
The controls having nothing to do with you being bad at the game, they suck plain and simple. Can you overlook or overcome them, sure I guess but for a company to invest this much time creating a open world game of this detail to roll it out with a control system that goes back to the PS2 is bat s*** insane.

If you think it is just a few of us on DSP complaining, take a look around the internet. Makes you wonder what the hell all these 100 and 98 review scores were looking at.
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by MERACE »

As was stated previously Rockstar games are not noted for being “shooter” games, but have shooting elements in the gameplay. Could the shooting mechanics be better, I suppose so. However, it has not diminished my love for the game.

Oh, and I really like the pace of the game. :)


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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by TCrouch »

Crazy--I didn't notice any of what I'm reading here, but maybe I'm just used to Rockstar games. I have run into some things here and there or had to re-orient my character to pick something up, but as far as gunfights, I've had no issues with it, personally.

Maybe the guys who have the aim-snap turned off (is that even a thing?) are noticing, because RDR has been the same for years for me. Center enemy on screen while in cover, hold LT to snap to him, flick R stick up a hair to head-shot, and move on to the next enemy. Taking out 10, 15, 20 bad guys from cover takes about 30 seconds, and shootouts in the open are usually very quick affairs for me. But I suspect I might be the target audience that doesn't mind the aim-assist or aim-snap, because it sort of captures that "badass gunslinger" vibe for me. I never really feel like I'm fighting against the controls, other than the strange LB+RB stuff to cycle menus.

Surprised to read some of these posts, but I'm glad I'm not bothered by some of this stuff. It's impressed me more with each passing minute played. I don't know how many hours I've spent hunting, gathering "perfect" pelts, upgrading the camp, my satchels, etc., and then moving on to a story mission here and there. It's not as randomized as I thought it would be based on preview articles, but it damn sure feels like a living place that I'm just passing through.

Totally hooked.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Danimal »

It has nothing to do with aiming at guys, I can easily pick and shoot my targets. It is getting into and out of cover, my guy actually doing what I tell him, "no don't climb on that box use it for cover" "Run from that wall to the building, no don't just walk out of cover"

These things are increasingly frustrating and if you can do them with ease then I can see why you would have no problems with the game. However expecting the game to have the same control level as say Naughty Dog game is not an unrealistic expectation in my opinion.
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by greggsand »

Here’s a great thread on tips and tricks: https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/commen ... h=8fa69698

I turned off all the auto-aim stuff and (because I suck), the shootouts are much more intense/unpredictable.
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by TCrouch »

Danimal wrote:It has nothing to do with aiming at guys, I can easily pick and shoot my targets. It is getting into and out of cover, my guy actually doing what I tell him, "no don't climb on that box use it for cover" "Run from that wall to the building, no don't just walk out of cover"

These things are increasingly frustrating and if you can do them with ease then I can see why you would have no problems with the game. However expecting the game to have the same control level as say Naughty Dog game is not an unrealistic expectation in my opinion.
Yeah, that's odd. I hit RB anywhere even close to something and he just runs up and slides into cover. The transitions were a bit weird, hitting "X" to move around a corner instead of just moving, but I could see how that could be frustrating, yeah. I generally just find somewhere to hunker down and blast them all, then move on. I generally don't have to move around on the object I'm behind very much. Run up, take cover, shoot, move past to the next cover, shoot, move past, etc.

Moving up on top of something would definitely suck, though. Never had that happen, luckily.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Danimal »

TCrouch wrote: Yeah, that's odd. I hit RB anywhere even close to something and he just runs up and slides into cover. The transitions were a bit weird, hitting "X" to move around a corner instead of just moving, but I could see how that could be frustrating, yeah. I generally just find somewhere to hunker down and blast them all, then move on. I generally don't have to move around on the object I'm behind very much. Run up, take cover, shoot, move past to the next cover, shoot, move past, etc.

Moving up on top of something would definitely suck, though. Never had that happen, luckily.
Maybe I'm just playing this incorrectly then or trying to be too tactical. For example that first fight where you raid the guys camp for the materials to rob the train (being vague as can be here) I try to get in cover shoot some guys, then someone is yelling at me to move up, so I need to move from point A to point B, climb up on a water tower, try and get in cover and shoot. Rinse and repeat, guys coming out of the woods trying to find cover and move. All very frustrating, once in cover it is not bad, but my dude never seems to want to get into cover. Maybe I just need to realize that if I sit in one spot everyone will come to me?
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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by TCrouch »

Yeah, I never climbed any tower. They definitely come to you. The danger is they'll flank you and get you in a cross fire, so you have to be aware and sometimes retreat back a couple of levels if they manage to pull it off.

I sat in the barely-there cover, shot guys as they poked their heads out. Move forward into the open. Took cover behind more barely-there fences.

Go to the edge of a building, etc. I don't try to get tricky with the cover system. Trees, buildings, rocks, fences. Anything else like piles of boxes or something, I can usually find a more reasonable area to get behind.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by sportdan30 »

I'm grown more accustomed to the controls and it's become less of a hindrance. It's not seamless like other games I've played, but it's manageable. I get frustrated when I get stuck going from one position (cover, to the left or right, etc) and end up standing on a rock or box when my intention is to position myself altogether differently. It's little things like in the heat of the battle that can be a little aggravating.

There was a suggestion that when you are attempting to loot or "take" something, it might be helpful to switch to first person. I've tried that a couple times and it seems to help some. There are times I want to sleep at my tent, but I have to nudge the controller just right to bring up that option. Again, little things like that I wish was more smooth.

There's an article in Forbes that has a good suggestion that I'm going to try this evening:

If you go into settings, controls and then scroll down to accessibility you can change running from “hold to run” to “toggle to run” instead. What this does is that when on foot, you no longer have to constantly be holding down A to jog, instead you can just tap it once and your character will run until you stop.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by 10spro »

sportdan30 wrote: There's an article in Forbes that has a good suggestion that I'm going to try this evening:

If you go into settings, controls and then scroll down to accessibility you can change running from “hold to run” to “toggle to run” instead. What this does is that when on foot, you no longer have to constantly be holding down A to jog, instead you can just tap it once and your character will run until you stop.
That’s what my settings are at, really helps when you’re on the run.

Also change to cinematic view when traveling.

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Re: Rockstar announces Red Dead Redemption - PS3/360

Post by Teal »

TCrouch wrote:Crazy--I didn't notice any of what I'm reading here, but maybe I'm just used to Rockstar games. I have run into some things here and there or had to re-orient my character to pick something up, but as far as gunfights, I've had no issues with it, personally.

Maybe the guys who have the aim-snap turned off (is that even a thing?) are noticing, because RDR has been the same for years for me. Center enemy on screen while in cover, hold LT to snap to him, flick R stick up a hair to head-shot, and move on to the next enemy. Taking out 10, 15, 20 bad guys from cover takes about 30 seconds, and shootouts in the open are usually very quick affairs for me. But I suspect I might be the target audience that doesn't mind the aim-assist or aim-snap, because it sort of captures that "badass gunslinger" vibe for me. I never really feel like I'm fighting against the controls, other than the strange LB+RB stuff to cycle menus.

Surprised to read some of these posts, but I'm glad I'm not bothered by some of this stuff. It's impressed me more with each passing minute played. I don't know how many hours I've spent hunting, gathering "perfect" pelts, upgrading the camp, my satchels, etc., and then moving on to a story mission here and there. It's not as randomized as I thought it would be based on preview articles, but it damn sure feels like a living place that I'm just passing through.

Totally hooked.
Yeah, I don't really see it nearly enough to make an issue out of it. I'm too immersed in the excellent game to give two shits about niggling stuff. I'm hopelessly addicted. Absolutely adore this game.
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