Madden 10 - Will they prove us wrong?

[bdoughty]

I came across this thread.

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/m ... eyond.html

Noticed that Ian (from EA) called out a poster on this.

I like posts like these...because it does drive me to prove you wrong.

To help me out...what do you..UMD...from Las Vegas, NV specifically need to see to make you post "they proved me wrong!" in August of next year?

What can Madden 10 do to prove "us" wrong? Not that everyone thinks that Madden is bad but over the past four years it has let down far more than it has excited it's fanbase.

So anyways, thanks much for your 4 items. Unfortunately I'm really just not allowed to talk about our feature set yet - but know I'm giving it my all this year...my ultimate goal will always be that post from you (and hundreds, thousands of others):
"They proved me wrong!"

Will some enhanced presentation and putting last gen things (refs, chain gang, etc) back on the field be enough? Do they have enough time to make enough changes to the gameplay to fix the numerous shortcomings? Can EA make a football game "this gen" that does not have some major issue that requires patching?

Myself, I am pretty skeptical but also realize that nothing they do will ever truly appease the 2K zealots. I am sure it will be better than the previous games but EA has never made a Madden game that has wowed me in the presentation of it. Hard for me to belive that after all these years they can do it in one year. If they can do that you can consider me proven wrong.

I just would not want to be Ian or Phil when August rolls around and find out that their best, was not good enough. Creating hype is easy, living up to it is work.

[sportdan30]

Presentation is numero uno in my opinion. I know most of you are more concerned about gameplay, but this game is so painfully boring to play because it lacks any kind of atmosphere. I don't necessarily need to see Berman and the boys in studio prior to the game. But use the damn ESPN license to it's fullest extent. It's an absolute a travesty how generic this game feels.

[bdoughty]

But use the damn ESPN license to it's fullest extent. It's an absolute a travesty how generic this game feels.

That will never happen. They may have the ESPN license but it goes along side of the NFL license and in turn a hard push towards getting NFL network presentation in there.

[Rodster]

My biggest problem with Madden 09 and I skipped Madden 08 was that it was just flat out boring. The game felt lifeless and I forced myself to finish a 5 minute/qtr game which I still have not been able to do.

On the plus side the game got a graphical boost along with some new animations that gave that deja-vu feeling when EA showed off those next-gen trailers of Madden 06 for the 360.

I got the collectors edition because of Head Coach 09 and found myself enjoying that more. I, at this point see no reason to fork over earned cash to EA next year. I'll just stick to Madden 09 and will probably if not most likely buy Head Coach 2010.

The funny thing is I still play NFL2K5 and it enjoy the overall package more than any Madden game in recent memory and i'm not a hardcore NFL2K5 guy because that game had it's share of problems. But the game just sucked you in with the ESPN integration. It was really fun to play.

That's all i'm asking from Madden 2010. Just make the game fun to play rather than a lifeless NFL videogame.

[Jared]

Line play! Line play! Line play!

I really wish they would completely revamp how the OL/DL interacts. That alone would make a huge difference.

[bdoughty]

On the plus side the game got a graphical boost along with some new animations that gave that deja-vu feeling when EA showed off those next-gen trailers of Madden 06 for the 360.

A graphical boost but even then Madden 09 and NCAA 09 take a big step backwards last year by removing the dynamic shadowing of the stadiums. That just drives me nuts, especially in NCAA 09 when you have to play 4 quarters of a late afternoon game in that orangish hue, that some art director at EA though was a great idea. Hey, on the bright side they say it will be back this year.

The problem is EA does things graphically that make you want to pull your hair out. I mean how do these guys let a game out the door where you players get plastered in mud, yet are playing on a field that look almost untouched? Ooops sorry, ran out of time, give us your $59.99 please.


Totally agree with Jared that line play is the biggest gameplay aspect that needs change. WR/DB interaction is pretty bad also, along with the QB drop back and passing animations. They really could just copy what 2k does in both departments and I would be thrilled.

[Zeppo]

Here's something really basic and simple that would please me: get rid of the 'Left' and 'Right' outside linebacker and safety designations, and give me 'Strong' and a 'Weak' side linebackers and 'Strong' and 'Free' safeties that line up on the strong or weak sides of the offense automatically, without me having to manually flip my D. These kinds of oversights that persist year after year in EA football really make it hard for me to believe the devs know even the most basic fundamentals of the game. In all my years following the NFL, I've never heard of 'Right' or 'Left' outside linebackers.

Or how about having nickel backs automatically line up against the slot receiver when in a zone? Again, being forced to flip the D to do something that in real life is pretty stupidly automatic is really frustrating.

And oh yeah; treat changes of possession like time outs when it comes to the play clock. Yes, in the NFL the play clock is only 0:25 after a change of possession (punt, kick off, turnover), but that's because there is almost always an official timeout after a change of possession, and when there is not an official time out, the referee doesn't chop the ball into play until some time after both teams have huddled. This kind of thing makes me CRAZY in Madden, because it seems to deeply hamper my ability to call the play I'd like to on 1st down after a change of possession. Again, this kind of problem makes me think none of the EA devs has ever actually attended a real NFL game.

More: how about offensive formations that adjust based on what hash the ball is on? Why can't Madden get both wide receivers outside the numbers, ever?

Or what about giving me some realistic flexibility of personnel on defense? Why can't any team in Madden put 5 or 6 DLs on the field outside of Goalline? How come every team in NCAA has a 4-4 and a 5-2 D package, but no team in the NFL does? Again, I'd suggest attending some NFL games live and in person to get a sense of what happens at these games, because it's really tough to tell who's on the field when you are watching on TV.

And none of that has anything to do with actual gameplay action, so how about getting rid of that annoying 'run and leap to the ball' on hitches and screens that causes your receiver to go towards the defender the pass is intended to beat? Nothing is more frustrating than throwing a zippy pass to a receiver on a stop route just past the line of gain, only to see him leap back towards the line of scrimmage and right into some DL that is spinning in place, or to beat an onrushing DL with a nifty screen pass over his head only to see your RB or receiver run towards the QB and smack into the guy the thrown ball has already taken out of the play.

And what about putting at least one or two basic end-around plays into each team's playbook? The end-around isn't really some super complex trick play; in reality it's a pretty basic play of pro football, really of all football. Why can't that be in there?

I could go on, but A.) none of this is really the kind of stuff they would likely be interested in hearing about, and B.) I haven't played Madden in such a long time that my memory is fuzzy on all the other little grating things about it.

[matthewk]

They won't proves us wrong, but they will prove once again that there are millions of suckers that will trust them "just 1 more time" in the hopes that this time it will be different.

[snaz16]

Here's something really basic and simple that would please me: get rid of the 'Left' and 'Right' outside linebacker and safety designations, and give me 'Strong' and a 'Weak' side linebackers and 'Strong' and 'Free' safeties that line up on the strong or weak sides of the offense automatically, without me having to manually flip my D. These kinds of oversights that persist year after year in EA football really make it hard for me to believe the devs know even the most basic fundamentals of the game. In all my years following the NFL, I've never heard of 'Right' or 'Left' outside linebackers.

Or how about having nickel backs automatically line up against the slot receiver when in a zone? Again, being forced to flip the D to do something that in real life is pretty stupidly automatic is really frustrating.

And oh yeah; treat changes of possession like time outs when it comes to the play clock. Yes, in the NFL the play clock is only 0:25 after a change of possession (punt, kick off, turnover), but that's because there is almost always an official timeout after a change of possession, and when there is not an official time out, the referee doesn't chop the ball into play until some time after both teams have huddled. This kind of thing makes me CRAZY in Madden, because it seems to deeply hamper my ability to call the play I'd like to on 1st down after a change of possession. Again, this kind of problem makes me think none of the EA devs has ever actually attended a real NFL game.

More: how about offensive formations that adjust based on what hash the ball is on? Why can't Madden get both wide receivers outside the numbers, ever?

Or what about giving me some realistic flexibility of personnel on defense? Why can't any team in Madden put 5 or 6 DLs on the field outside of Goalline? How come every team in NCAA has a 4-4 and a 5-2 D package, but no team in the NFL does? Again, I'd suggest attending some NFL games live and in person to get a sense of what happens at these games, because it's really tough to tell who's on the field when you are watching on TV.

And none of that has anything to do with actual gameplay action, so how about getting rid of that annoying 'run and leap to the ball' on hitches and screens that causes your receiver to go towards the defender the pass is intended to beat? Nothing is more frustrating than throwing a zippy pass to a receiver on a stop route just past the line of gain, only to see him leap back towards the line of scrimmage and right into some DL that is spinning in place, or to beat an onrushing DL with a nifty screen pass over his head only to see your RB or receiver run towards the QB and smack into the guy the thrown ball has already taken out of the play.

And what about putting at least one or two basic end-around plays into each team's playbook? The end-around isn't really some super complex trick play; in reality it's a pretty basic play of pro football, really of all football. Why can't that be in there?

I could go on, but A.) none of this is really the kind of stuff they would likely be interested in hearing about, and B.) I haven't played Madden in such a long time that my memory is fuzzy on all the other little grating things about it.

Ian and development team after reading Zeppo's post
..

[MizzouRah]

Presentation is numero uno in my opinion. I know most of you are more concerned about gameplay, but this game is so painfully boring to play because it lacks any kind of atmosphere. I don't necessarily need to see Berman and the boys in studio prior to the game. But use the damn ESPN license to it's fullest extent. It's an absolute a travesty how generic this game feels.

+1 Dan.. the game is sooooo boring.. I was done after a game over at my neighbor's house...

[Rodster]

That's my biggest problem with the game it's fecking boring. I actually prefer the radio guy over the presentation in this years game. At least the dreaded radio guy had some emotion.

[bdoughty]

Geez after reading the updated pages, things not looking good.

Thanks for the feedback. One quick point of clarification - "real online Franchise" is without a doubt the most complex and complicated feature in the history of sports gaming. Not a simple one by any means. NCAA spent nearly all of their cycle getting their implementation of Dynasty (a non-flexible file sharing method) online. Ask anyone that played the PC versions and you'll know the complexity and difficulty that goes into putting a feature with that amount of depth online (and making it good).

Anyone else seeing a hidden message, that Online will be pretty much the same as last year because we are focusing on presentation and franchise? It also screams of a development team in desperate need for more manpower, talent and dev hours. Of course it has been this way for the past 4 years.

[Rodster]

What PC version is he referring to?

[Rodster]

NM

I just read on football-freaks.com that EA will release Madden 2010 for the PC.

[Afrodamus]

My biggest problem with Madden 09 and I skipped Madden 08 was that it was just flat out boring.

Bingo...Madden IMO is boring and its not the presentation that makes it boring or the lack therof...Its the gameplay...I don't care about ESPN presentation...I want the gameplay to provide the excitement and the PREDICTABILITY of Madden does not make for long lasting entertainment value with this game.

[Rodster]

My biggest problem with Madden 09 and I skipped Madden 08 was that it was just flat out boring.

Bingo...Madden IMO is boring and its not the presentation that makes it boring or the lack therof...Its the gameplay...I don't care about ESPN presentation...I want the gameplay to provide the excitement and the PREDICTABILITY of Madden does not make for long lasting entertainment value with this game.

I just don't see myself buying next years game if it's as boring as this years game. What's funny is the PSP version of Madden 09 is the best Madden I have ever played. It is unpredictable, you'll see random penalties of all kinds called. The CPU has great passing and running skills and they'll change things up where it'll keep you on your toes. And I accomplished this with a very minor sliders tweak. I have played that Madden more than any other.

I found myself enjoying HC 09 more than Madden 09. I see myself buying that game instead because I love text based management games like Football and FIFA Manager.

[Afrodamus]

My biggest problem with Madden 09 and I skipped Madden 08 was that it was just flat out boring.

Bingo...Madden IMO is boring and its not the presentation that makes it boring or the lack therof...Its the gameplay...I don't care about ESPN presentation...I want the gameplay to provide the excitement and the PREDICTABILITY of Madden does not make for long lasting entertainment value with this game.

I just don't see myself buying next years game if it's as boring as this years game. What's funny is the PSP version of Madden 09 is the best Madden I have ever played. It is unpredictable, you'll see random penalties of all kinds called. The CPU has great passing and running skills and they'll change things up where it'll keep you on your toes. And I accomplished this with a very minor sliders tweak. I have played that Madden more than any other.

I found myself enjoying HC 09 more than Madden 09. I see myself buying that game instead because I love text based management games like Football and FIFA Manager.

When you are football junkie like alot of us its not an option to NOT buy Madden...Every year I convince myself that next year will be the year...and to be honest this years game is not THAT bad...Its the best version since the new consoles arrived...But for me the game is just boring...I only play online and not with cheesers...I have many people who keep it real on my buddylist...But for me the game just seems very predictable...FRom the boring Offensive and defensive playbooks to the juvenile kicking game to the horrid QB play...There is just alot of work that needs to be done on the core gameplay...Thats why I don't understand how people will only complain about fluffy stuff like presentation...How about fixing the gameplay 1st?

DB/WR interaction = Terrible to non exiastant...and what I mean is the Db's in Madden don't really react to the WR...They react at all times to the ball as if they have ESP or other times as if they are brain dead...EA needs to animate and include a relationship where DB's play the WR.

O Line Blocking is atrocious - From run blocking to pass blocking this area needs a full overhaul to include additional options for the user to read blitzes and assign OL to pick up blitzers if and when a blitz can be read. I know OL slide protection is in there but we need something that improved.

The QB Position - IMO all the improvements need to start right at the QB...While I loved the vision cone I understand that alot of people did not care for it...I would argue that if they eliminated the beam of light and used all the same concepts in the passing game most would have very little complain about. What I mean is to deliver an accurate throw a QB needs to read the D, set up in the pocket, plant his feet and look at the REC he is throwing to. All of those elements should increase the accuracy of the throw...Unfortunately there are many though that just want to hike and huck while running backwards, sideways and all sorts of directions. Until EA commits some time and intelligence to the QB position Madden really won't change much because it really doesn't matter what QB you have in there as they all can do just about the same thing.

PLaybooks = I've been through each and every playbook and they are all the same with the exception of a few formations and maybe a COUPLE of plays...Otherwise they are all the same with the same terminology. EA claims to have a guy that specifically works on playbooks. Back in the day you could explore the playbooks and find sets and plays that were unique...Not anymore...far more diversity is needed in the Offensive and Defensive playbooks to include unique terminology

There is alot more too but thats just the tip of the iceberg so while people complain about Presentation etc...I continue to ask those people...Do you really want EA to work on presentation when the gameplay is still so JUVENILE???

[Rodster]

Agreed wrt Madden but the PSP version is just amazingly fun. The PS360 version as well as the PC version have become a monotonous snooze fest. Which means if after playing the demo it looks, plays and resembles Madden 09 i'll skip it.

[bdoughty]

Bullietin Board Material?

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/m ... erial.html

Hey guys,
With the team returning to work on Monday, I had an idea that I wanted to post up some "bulletin board" material at work - i.e. some posts that really would get the fires lit with the team. After I pick the best ones and post them up, I will take some pics and post them here as well. I want to do this so you can see for sure that you are having a direct impact on our team's day to day work.

----------------------------------------


Good heavens, if you need "bulletin board" material to fire up your team, we are screwed. Just have your team play all of the "next gen" Madden games for a whole day. If that can't fire your team to do better, I have no idea what can.

IAN is starting to sound more like an EA Marketing guy pushing the Madden Snake Oil each day.

[matthewk]

This is just more of the same marketing BS we hear every year. This time of year it's all about how they are listening to our concerns. Once the game is out and people find out that a lot of what they want was still not addressed, EA will come back with the "maybe next year" and "we ran out of time". Release, repeat.

I was actually impressed with what the Xbox1 team accomplished. With what had to be very little resources, they added a number of useful things to a game that was lucky to have even seen the light of day.

New features in Madden 09 for the Xbox1:
- Receivers dragging their feet to stay inbounds.
- QB evasion.
- (Slightly) deeper playbooks
- Ability to save custom audibles
- Supersim
- Combo moves

And all of it comes without removing any of the features already in (a lot of which are still missing from next gen).

[Rodster]

This is just more of the same marketing BS we hear every year. This time of year it's all about how they are listening to our concerns. Once the game is out and people find out that a lot of what they want was still not addressed, EA will come back with the "maybe next year" and "we ran out of time". Release, repeat.

I was actually impressed with what the Xbox1 team accomplished. With what had to be very little resources, they added a number of useful things to a game that was lucky to have even seen the light of day.

New features in Madden 09 for the Xbox1:
- Receivers dragging their feet to stay inbounds.
- QB evasion.
- (Slightly) deeper playbooks
- Ability to save custom audibles
- Supersim
- Combo moves

And all of it comes without removing any of the features already in (a lot of which are still missing from next gen).

I didn't realize the Xbox version was superior to the next gen version let alone actually still being made for the Xbox. I might pick up Madden 2010 for the Xbox1 instead.

[DivotMaker]

I might pick up Madden 2010 for the Xbox1 instead.

Good luck with that.....

[Rodster]

I might pick up Madden 2010 for the Xbox1 instead.

Good luck with that.....

It sounds like Madden 09 is the last in the series for the Xboxen.

I'll get Madden 09 then.

[wco81]

If you're an NFL fan and a gamer, it's hard to resist, especially in the month or two before the other sports games come out.

I think they're aware of the shortcomings, especially with so much Internet discussion about them. Plus they have access to the coaches and players who can point out what's needed. But the thing for them is, they'd have to probably rip out a lot of the legacy code which is still making them lots of money.

As far as integrating all the technique for the linemen and the DBs and WRs, it's a good idea in theory but it may not be easy to do. Look at all the fancy moves and juggling skills in FIFA. You will see tons of Youtube videos of people pulling them off in the practice arena. But get in to the game, especially online games, and with the delay in control response, they're hard to pull off consistently and even if there wasn't the control lag, you don't often get the ball in space with enough time before defenders from all directions close in and holding down the X button to press automatically tackles easily.

I think more than individual player technique, they need to look more at the exotic blitzes which are in vogue right now, with teams consistently finding ways to get in the A-gaps with subtle positioning and timings. There are a lot of interesting chess games being played there, which kind of overwhelm the physical technique at the individual player level. In that instance, defensive linemen aren't necessarily trying to beat their man's block so much as manipulate the offensive linemen into leaving gaps for LBs and safeties to sprint through. You know for instance that the AWR ratings of offensive linemen in Madden has little to do with how vulnerable they are to this kind of manipulation.

[DivotMaker]

I might pick up Madden 2010 for the Xbox1 instead.

Good luck with that.....

It sounds like Madden 09 is the last in the series for the Xboxen.

I'll get Madden 09 then.

Madden 07 is the last version for the XBox that I can find....

http://findgames.ea.com/cat/sports/plat ... e/football