Feanor wrote:Nobody (sane) thinks all organisms are equal but that doesn't mean human life is the only thing on the planet that matters.
Like was stated earlier, the cop could have easily taken the guy's details and followed him for a bit to make sure he was driving closer to the speed limit. The vet can't have been that far away. To stand there for 15 minutes while the dog choked to death was being cruel just because he could.
I agree with you on this to a point. Especially your first sentence. My question is,how far had they driven before they were stopped? I don't know how long it takes for a small dog to choke,but it's possible the dog was already dead when they were stopped.
Feanor wrote:Nobody (sane) thinks all organisms are equal but that doesn't mean human life is the only thing on the planet that matters.
I don't think that, either. I wouldn't own pets if I thought human life was the only thing that matters, and I wouldn't neuter and spay my cats if I didn't give a turd about animal life.
But I don't put animals on the same ladder rung as humans. The animals have a ladder rung, but it's one lower than people.
I think perspective changes a lot when you become a parent. At least mine did.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
pk500 wrote:Are Ax and JackB channeling Gandhi through the DSP Ouija board?
Let me ask Ax a variant of my original question, hypothetical, of course. God forbid, let's say the injured person and dog were your brother and your pooch.
Does Rover still go to the vet first? Equal injuries -- both have lacerations that require stitches.
Take care,
PK
If it's still on the way, sure.
Realistically it probably wouldn't be so we'd be on our way to the people hospital, going 100 mph of course. I'm sure once we got there they could come up with something for rover as well. Point being, there aren't mapped out priorities, I'd be trying to get each the help they needed while going to the people hospital first. There was no one already in need of care in this case except for the dog, so why not try and save the life? In my opinion the danger they posed just wasn't great enough to warrant just sitting around and saying "Oh well, want to go to Petsmart after work tomorrow?"
If you'd like to sit in on the next seance, I'm sure JackB and I could make room. Ghandi is going to share what to do if you have a choking human being as well.
Atxj wrote:If you'd like to sit in on the next seance, I'm sure JackB and I could make room. Ghandi is going to share what to do if you have an injured human being as well.
Just make sure there are screens on the windows and no snacks sitting out on plates in the room with the Ouija board. We don't want to swat any mosquitoes or flies.
And make sure this album is playing in the room:
Just having some fun here, man. I completely disagree with your view, but you have expressed it clearly, and you're certainly entitled to it.
Take care,
PK
Last edited by pk500 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
Atxj wrote:If you'd like to sit in on the next seance, I'm sure JackB and I could make room. Ghandi is going to share what to do if you have an injured human being as well.
Just make sure there are screens on the windows and no snacks sitting out on plates in the room with the Ouija board. We don't want to swat any mosquitoes or flies.
Feanor wrote:Nobody (sane) thinks all organisms are equal but that doesn't mean human life is the only thing on the planet that matters.
Like was stated earlier, the cop could have easily taken the guy's details and followed him for a bit to make sure he was driving closer to the speed limit. The vet can't have been that far away. To stand there for 15 minutes while the dog choked to death was being cruel just because he could.
I agree with you on this to a point. Especially your first sentence. My question is,how far had they driven before they were stopped? I don't know how long it takes for a small dog to choke,but it's possible the dog was already dead when they were stopped.
You didn't even watch the video.
Yes I did. In this day and age if I was that cop and that guy jumped out of his van after driving the way he did I would have tasered his ass.
JackDog wrote:
I agree with you on this to a point. Especially your first sentence. My question is,how far had they driven before they were stopped? I don't know how long it takes for a small dog to choke,but it's possible the dog was already dead when they were stopped.
You didn't even watch the video.
Yes I did. In this day and age if I was that cop and that guy jumped out of his van after driving the way he did I would have tasered his ass.
C'mon Jack, I knew that before you mentioned it.
I was going more for the part about where the girl says the dog was still alive in her lap when the other officer approached her window and began to question her.
I was going more for the part about where the girl says the dog was still alive in her lap when the other officer approached her window and began to question her.
Gotcha. Your right I didn't see that part. Oh well. The dog is dead and the cop is suspended. It's a bad deal all around. Maybe all parties involved learned something.
By the way...I think that "organisms" is taking this a little too far and I probably should have said animals instead. I think that everyone has their own "ranking" of importance when it comes to various forms of life and of course I would pick a person over a animal if the choice was there. But...what is wrong with placing some value on ALL creatures? There is no need to determine what life form is "superior" to the other. They all have a place in the big picture. It might be "natural" for larger predators to prey on smaller weaker ones, but that doesn't make the larger one's more "important". Everyone has there own personal views on this and who knows what is "right" or "wrong". It's just a personal viewpoint.
The thing that started this whole thing was this cop that obviously thought dogs were just "replace-able, material things". I don't share his viewpoint, but I would imagine there are many that do.
dbdynsty25 wrote:
When in the F*CK did God or whomever you believe in come down and tell you this?
Edit: Plus, if we were really equals...why would there be a food chain? Wouldn't that really screw up life on earth if that was the case?
Whoever said anyone came down and told me this? These are obviously personal beliefs, like religion or life after death, etc. Nobody has come down and told anyone about a lot the things that people take as "gospel", but that doesn't stop them. And what does a "food chain" have to do with anything?
That is your measuring stick? So if you get eaten by a Great White Shark, does that make them superior to you?
I totally undertand that cops put up with all kinds of b.s all day long and are "paid to enforce the law", but everything can't be black and white. Why do you think hot chicks with big boobs get out of tickets all the time?
Not black chicks. They get shot if they are driving 100 mph and weaving back and forth while talking on a cell phone.
My point was that there are many jobs out there that require "enforcing the law", but that doesn't mean there isn't room for common sense and judgment that isn't written down in the police manual.
JackB1 wrote:By the way...I think that "organisms" is taking this a little too far and ...everyone has their own "ranking" of importance when it comes to various forms of life ...There is no need to determine what life form is "superior" to the other... It might be "natural" for larger predators to prey on smaller weaker ones, but that doesn't make the larger one's more "important". Everyone has there own personal views on this and who knows what is "right" or "wrong". It's just a personal viewpoint.
The thing that started this whole thing was this cop that obviously thought dogs were just "replace-able, material things". I don't share his viewpoint, but I would imagine there are many that do.
No comment on the topic, but Jack's crazy use of quotes has me picturing him like this behind the keyboard now...
RobVarak wrote:The opposing argument can only logically conclude that since every organism is of equal value we should have the same remorse for the lives of the millions of micro-organisms that we kill ever day, the squirrel that we run over with the car and a kid who dies of cancer.
I posit that not only is it impossible to feel such remorse, and take the action necessary to eliminate the killing of all these organisms, but it is fundamentally immoral to do so. For in order to display this sort of "hyper-regard" for all living things one would have to actively risk the lives of human beings (who are after all not very numerous) in order to protect the other species. Not, in my view, a tenable argument at all.
I agree and I never suggesting taking this concept to such crazy extremes. All you can do is what is equal to your own comfort level. Just like you can't feasibly give all your spare change to every homeless person or to every charity or help every old lady across the street, you do what you can. It's not an "all or nothing" kind of thing.
JackB1 wrote:By the way...I think that "organisms" is taking this a little too far and ...everyone has their own "ranking" of importance when it comes to various forms of life ...There is no need to determine what life form is "superior" to the other... It might be "natural" for larger predators to prey on smaller weaker ones, but that doesn't make the larger one's more "important". Everyone has there own personal views on this and who knows what is "right" or "wrong". It's just a personal viewpoint.
The thing that started this whole thing was this cop that obviously thought dogs were just "replace-able, material things". I don't share his viewpoint, but I would imagine there are many that do.
No comment on the topic, but Jack's crazy use of quotes has me picturing him like this behind the keyboard now...
pk500 wrote:
Let me ask Ax a variant of my original question, hypothetical, of course. God forbid, let's say the injured person and dog were your brother and your pooch.
Does Rover still go to the vet first? Equal injuries -- both have lacerations that require stitches.
I'd hand my brother a bottle of Wild Turkey and tell him to stop his bitchin' while I drop off old sparky at the vet.
Personally I wouldn't have stopped until I got there. It's only 8-10 miles according to the owner in the video and OJ made it that far going 35 mph down the freeway:)
As a soon-to-be-vet (next May) I'd love to see pet ambulances become more common but it just isn't cost effective right now.
I totally undertand that cops put up with all kinds of b.s all day long and are "paid to enforce the law", but everything can't be black and white. Why do you think hot chicks with big boobs get out of tickets all the time?
Not black chicks. They get shot if they are driving 100 mph and weaving back and forth while talking on a cell phone.
My point was that there are many jobs out there that require "enforcing the law", but that doesn't mean there isn't room for common sense and judgment that isn't written down in the police manual.
That was a joke brother. I didn't add the obligatory
JackB1 wrote:By the way...I think that "organisms" is taking this a little too far and ...everyone has their own "ranking" of importance when it comes to various forms of life ...There is no need to determine what life form is "superior" to the other... It might be "natural" for larger predators to prey on smaller weaker ones, but that doesn't make the larger one's more "important". Everyone has there own personal views on this and who knows what is "right" or "wrong". It's just a personal viewpoint.
The thing that started this whole thing was this cop that obviously thought dogs were just "replace-able, material things". I don't share his viewpoint, but I would imagine there are many that do.
No comment on the topic, but Jack's crazy use of quotes has me picturing him like this behind the keyboard now...
I'm amazed at the lack of common sense shown here.
Let's see the list of things we are comparing saving a dog to are babies, other humans and god.
I don't know, couldn't the cop called into dispatch and got animal service to show up. Or at least helped.
If a human was choking and they were going 100 mph isn't that still breaking the law and the cop shouldn't have helped the choking person because a law was broken.
Seems that sometimes enforcing the law isn't the only thing that cops need to do. Their old addage of "protect and serve" should apply here.
As a dog owner, I probably could save my choking dog. I remember having to get out a bone lodged in my uncle's dog mouth. And I don't think I would be going 100. But if I was speeding, I would understand if the cop would give me a ticket but I would also expect that he call animal services or let me go to the vet. I don't know but it seems any other reasonable option but let my dog die while he "enforces the law".
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