Atxj wrote:We could sit around all day and debate about what I would of done had this and that happened and what you would of done and think should have been done had this situation occurred under other circumstances.
It was nighttime, there were a few semi's on the road and a couple would liked to have saved their dog's life. Sure they broke the law and posed a minimal threat to themselves and those around them. I don't see much wrong with went on.
What's funniest for me, pk, is that your too arrogant to allow anyone else's opinion matter.
Nice duck and dodge. Answer the question: Would you take the dog to the vet before the guy to the emergency room if the vet's office was closer or on the way?
You were the one, after all, who said all organisms are equal. So in helping me to understand that opinion, you have the floor to clarify your opinion by answering a hypothetical.
Now that's not haughty, is it? Go ahead -- a firm opinion won't hurt my feelings or cause me to think you're arrogant.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
Atxj wrote:We could sit around all day and debate about what I would of done had this and that happened and what you would of done and think should have been done had this situation occurred under other circumstances.
It was nighttime, there were a few semi's on the road and a couple would liked to have saved their dog's life. Sure they broke the law and posed a minimal threat to themselves and those around them. I don't see much wrong with went on.
What's funniest for me, pk, is that your too arrogant to allow anyone else's opinion matter.
Nice duck and dodge. Answer the question: Would you take the dog to the vet before the guy to the emergency room if the vet's office was closer or on the way?
You were the one, after all, who said all organisms are equal. So in helping me to understand that opinion, you have the floor to clarify your opinion by answering a hypothetical.
Now that's not haughty, is it? Go ahead -- a firm opinion won't hurt my feelings or cause me to think you're arrogant.
Take care,
PK
If the vet's office was on the way, I sure would.
The only thing that gets me about this couple is that they didn't have the common sense to try and clear the airway themselves. You don't need to work in an ER to know that compressions to the chest or back are a simple method to use. Their helplessness was ultimately their downfall.
Atxj wrote:We could sit around all day and debate about what I would of done had this and that happened and what you would of done and think should have been done had this situation occurred under other circumstances.
It was nighttime, there were a few semi's on the road and a couple would liked to have saved their dog's life. Sure they broke the law and posed a minimal threat to themselves and those around them. I don't see much wrong with went on.
What's funniest for me, pk, is that your too arrogant to allow anyone else's opinion matter.
Nice duck and dodge. Answer the question: Would you take the dog to the vet before the guy to the emergency room if the vet's office was closer or on the way?
You were the one, after all, who said all organisms are equal. So in helping me to understand that opinion, you have the floor to clarify your opinion by answering a hypothetical.
Now that's not haughty, is it? Go ahead -- a firm opinion won't hurt my feelings or cause me to think you're arrogant.
Take care,
PK
If the vet's office was on the way, I sure would.
The only thing that gets me about this couple is that they didn't have the common sense to try and clear the airway themselves. You don't need to work in an ER to know that compressions to the chest or back are a simple method to use. Their helplessness was ultimately their downfall.
I don't own a dog, but if you do own a dog, would you even know a dog's anatomy to start? Just asking because I don't know. Would most dog owners know where a dog's lungs/heart etc.. is?
I totally undertand that cops put up with all kinds of b.s all day long and are "paid to enforce the law", but everything can't be black and white. Why do you think hot chicks with big boobs get out of tickets all the time?
As far as the "we are all equal" argument, IMO, we truly are, in the eyes of our creator. Why are humans superior? We aren't the biggest or the strongest. We may have the largest brain. Is that the determining factor? What then IS the determining factor? I don't think it is for us to decide. It's like saying who do you love more...your son or your daughter? You love them both equally because they are both your offspring, just like this whole world is our creator's "offspring". Just respect all "life" in general and I think you can't go wrong. Not just what's "important to you". Of course there has to be some level of hierchy in one's own mind, but to think that we as humans are somehow superior to all other life seems somewhat arrogant to me. Believe me, I know I am in the minority on this one, so I don't expect much support and I know you could find lots of personal hypocrisy, but that's my thoughts on the subject.
Last edited by JackB1 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pk500 wrote:
Nice duck and dodge. Answer the question: Would you take the dog to the vet before the guy to the emergency room if the vet's office was closer or on the way?
You were the one, after all, who said all organisms are equal. So in helping me to understand that opinion, you have the floor to clarify your opinion by answering a hypothetical.
Now that's not haughty, is it? Go ahead -- a firm opinion won't hurt my feelings or cause me to think you're arrogant.
Take care,
PK
If the vet's office was on the way, I sure would.
The only thing that gets me about this couple is that they didn't have the common sense to try and clear the airway themselves. You don't need to work in an ER to know that compressions to the chest or back are a simple method to use. Their helplessness was ultimately their downfall.
I don't own a dog, but if you do own a dog, would you even know a dog's anatomy to start? Just asking because I don't know. Would most dog owners know where a dog's lungs/heart etc.. is?
I do own a dog and I can't say that I know their anatomy down to a t. With that said it's not too hard to snuff out where things probably are if you think about it. Even not knowing where the lungs may be directly located, which is what you would be wanting to compress in this situation, putting pressure just under the ribs and pulling upwards is going to compress all of the internal organs and force air upwards and out of the airway. You may break a rib or put some extra pressure on something that wouldn't ideally want that but in this case it would have to be life over limb.
I am an Athletic Training major and have several CPR/First Aid certifications so this is easy for me to say and understand. However, as you stated I could understand how someone without that sort of background might not know what to do.
Last edited by Atxj on Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I totally undertand that cops put up with all kinds of b.s all day long and are "paid to enforce the law", but everything can't be black and white. Why do you think hot chicks with big boobs get out of tickets all the time?
Not black chicks. They get shot if they are driving 100 mph and weaving back and forth while talking on a cell phone.
JackB1 wrote:As far as the "we are all equal organisms" argument, IMO, we truly are, in the eyes of our creator. Why are humans superior? We aren't the biggest or the strongest. We may have the largest brain. Is that the determining factor? What then IS the determining factor? I don't think it is for us to decide. It's like saying who do you love more...your son or your daughter? You love them both equally because they are both your offspring, just like this whole world is our creator's "offspring". Just respect all "life" in general and I think you can't go wrong. Not just what's "important to you". Of course there has to be some level of hierchy in one's own mind, but to think that we as humans are somehow superior to all other life seems somewhat arrogant to me. Believe me, I know I am in the minority on this one, so I don't expect much support and I know you could find lots of personal hypocrisy, but that's my thoughts on the subject.
Have a kid and then tell me if you still feel this way.
I am an Athletic Training major and have several CPR/First Aid certifications so this is easy for me to say and understand. However, as you stated I could understand how someone without that sort of background might not know what to do.
That's great man. Now we all know you could help out an innocent victim of the next asshat that does this and hits somebody. That is of course if it doesn't hinder the pet from getting to the vet.
Amazing what gets talked about in sports gaming forum.
The cop could have handled it a little better. My brothers are in law enforcement, and they both said they would have offered some kind of assistance & delt with the tickets later. Who would just sit there filling out paperwork while a dog (or anything) is dying right in-front of you?? That's creepy.
1. Cops job is to enforce the law, not "show remorse" for dead or dying animals.
2. Fundamentally you can argue that the life of every organism on the planet. You can also suggest that the earth is flat, life begins at 30 or that PK is a spendthrift. Just because you can make an argument doesn't mean that factual reality doesn't exist. There are humans and then there are everything else. As the world's most highly-evolved animals, we owe it to ourselves, to each other and to the planet to do everything we can to protect ourselves. Any protection we can give to lesser, yes lesser, organisms is gravy.
You can disagree with that position, but I don't think you want to. The opposing argument can only logically conclude that since every organism is of equal value we should have the same remorse for the lives of the millions of micro-organisms that we kill ever day, the squirrel that we run over with the car and a kid who dies of cancer.
I posit that not only is it impossible to feel such remorse, and take the action necessary to eliminate the killing of all these organisms, but it is fundamentally immoral to do so. For in order to display this sort of "hyper-regard" for all living things one would have to actively risk the lives of human beings (who are after all not very numerous) in order to protect the other species. Not, in my view, a tenable argument at all.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
I am an Athletic Training major and have several CPR/First Aid certifications so this is easy for me to say and understand. However, as you stated I could understand how someone without that sort of background might not know what to do.
That's great man. Now we all know you could help out an innocent victim of the next asshat that does this and hits somebody. That is of course if it doesn't hinder the pet from getting to the vet.
Which happens about as often as you have offered something constructive to this conversation.
RobVarak wrote:1. Cops job is to enforce the law, not "show remorse" for dead or dying animals.
Duh. It's not a requirement of most jobs. I'm talking about a person who would just stand there - I would say that's not typical of most people (even Cops).
again, having law enforcement in the family, people get let out of tickets doing a lot [edit] worse than this (trust me).
I am an Athletic Training major and have several CPR/First Aid certifications so this is easy for me to say and understand. However, as you stated I could understand how someone without that sort of background might not know what to do.
That's great man. Now we all know you could help out an innocent victim of the next asshat that does this and hits somebody. That is of course if it doesn't hinder the pet from getting to the vet.
Which happens about as often as you have offered something constructive to this conversation.
Well thank God for that huh?
Constuctive died when you brought up your organism theory.
dbdynsty25 wrote:I liked Rob's double post an hour and 40 minutes later. LOL.
That's freaky! I'm reading the thread, see my avatar and think, "Hmm, I don't remember posting lately..." Very disturbing.
OTOH, Jack seems to have ignored my second point, so maybe seeing it again will help him understand the intellectual dishonesty necessary to buy into the fallacy of all organisms being equal. Or maybe he really is weeping over the millions of bacteria he killed with his spate of genocidal hand washing
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
Nobody (sane) thinks all organisms are equal but that doesn't mean human life is the only thing on the planet that matters.
Like was stated earlier, the cop could have easily taken the guy's details and followed him for a bit to make sure he was driving closer to the speed limit. The vet can't have been that far away. To stand there for 15 minutes while the dog choked to death was being cruel just because he could.
Last edited by Feanor on Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
RobVarak wrote:
OTOH, Jack seems to have ignored my second point, so maybe seeing it again will help him understand the intellectual dishonesty necessary to buy into the fallacy of all organisms being equal. Or maybe he really is weeping over the millions of bacteria he killed with his spate of genocidal hand washing
Scoop's old 'gym sock' Hicks sig quote comes to mind...
Feanor wrote:Nobody (sane) thinks all organisms are equal but that doesn't mean human life is the only thing on the planet that matters.
Like was stated earlier, the cop could have easily taken the guy's details and followed him for a bit to make sure he was driving closer to the speed limit. The vet can't have been that far away. To stand there for 15 minutes while the dog choked to death was being cruel just because he could.
I agree with you on this to a point. Especially your first sentence. My question is,how far had they driven before they were stopped? I don't know how long it takes for a small dog to choke,but it's possible the dog was already dead when they were stopped.
Are Ax and JackB channeling Gandhi through the DSP Ouija board?
Let me ask Ax a variant of my original question, hypothetical, of course. God forbid, let's say the injured person and dog were your brother and your pooch.
Does Rover still go to the vet first? Equal injuries -- both have lacerations that require stitches.
Take care,
PK
Last edited by pk500 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
