OT: Racing 2008-2009 (Spoiler Alert)

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:23 pm

Rodster wrote:My favorite look was the 1991 cars.

The 7-Up Jordan machine was very pretty from that year:

Adrian Newey's first Leyton House also was quite tidy in 1991:

But those two still can't compare with this trio:

Lotus 49

Eagle Weslake

Lotus 79

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:30 pm

When it comes to cars designed in this decade, the Bentley Speed 8 stands very far alone, in my opinion:

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:49 pm

Yeah the 7up Jordan was pretty sweet as well as the Leyton House. I also like the Lotus 49 and Eagle Weslake. Sweet looking cars.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

You're all missing a trick. Should have posted this when the issue first came up earlier in the thread instead of going for an Eagle, Williams and Brabham, but I save my heavy hitters until I need them. Supposing you've got hold of a customer March 721, you've realised that it really isn't all that good and you're trying your very best to improve it - what do you create? Presenting the Eifelland:

A work of art, I'm sure you'll agree. Notice the gorgeous all-enveloping bodywork. When they ran the car like that, the lack of airflow to the internals meant that everything inside boiled itself, so upon its race debut it looked like this - an improvement upon perfection, gentlemen:

Now let us never criticise modern racing cars again.

Edit: Grrr, pictures aren't showing anymore for me. They did, though. I'll see if I can fix it.

Right, sod it - much smaller than the first ones I had, so you'll have to squint a bit.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:03 am

pk500 wrote:Adrian Newey's first Leyton House also was quite tidy in 1991

I've wondered about this a while, and you might be the fella to tell me - how much did Newey have to do with the 1991 Leyton House? I know they sacked him in 1990, which seems remarkable looking back, but presumably he was there long enough to have some influence on the '91 machine? Tidy looking thing that it was, it wasn't massively quick or reliable, and given that Newey had a good amount of involvement with the Williams FW14 of that year, it always struck me as odd that that year's Leyton House wasn't somehow better, regardless of the difference in resources and the trouble the team ended up in.

(Edited because it's a genuine question and my late-night stab at wording it really didn't sound like it...)

As a kid I always liked Leyton House, because their cars were a pretty colour. I was a fairly simple child.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:33 pm

Adam:

I probably f*cked up on that being a Newey car. Forgot about his firing and move to Williams. I thought he was with Leyton House in 1991.

Sorry!

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:38 pm

I know we're referencing F1 when it comes to pretty open-wheel cars, but the Pennzoil Chaparral in which Johnny Rutherford earned his third Indianapolis 500 victory, in 1980, still is the prettiest winged open-wheel car I've ever seen in terms of design:

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:59 am

Oooh, I do like that, actually.

Meanwhile, your open-wheel racing scene really has gone to the dogs, hasn't it?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65062

I appreciate that certain people here can't really comment too far, and that for others it's a tremendously emotive topic, but as a long-distant fan who follows both series but much preferred it when there was only one to follow, it appears that the whole thing is utterly bloody ridiculous.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:13 am

I know Robin Miller wants to see both sides together again but Robin needs to STFU because the Champ Car guys called him out for it again. Just when things get serious he starts igniting the merger talk rumors then gets all the motorsport press all lathered up and then the talks collapse.

Motegi should not even be a big deal. If they can't change their schedule this year then start the merger process in 2009.

Adam i'm glad the F1 owners and the breakaway GP series came to their senses. No one wins when you have a once thriving series fractured. Even if Champ Car and the IRL get back together the damage has already been done. NASCAR is now the premier racing sport in the US and is siphoning sponsorship from the IRL and Champ Car and other open wheel fans like myself have abandoned interest in the IRL and Champ Car for Formula One.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:25 am

lol - With my lousy vision, I'd swear that 7-Up Jordan says "osama" on the side

So far as following any racing series, I don't care what the cars look like if they are fast and the racing is good. I also have no problem with the look of the sleeker more modern F1 cars of the last 10 years. I am beginning to have a problem with the look of this year's cars with the funny front wings, but I don't mind that much. I'd also prefer if there were less funny little aero bits on them, but if they were to be removed I'd absolutely love the look of the cars of the last couple of years.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:20 am

Rodster wrote:I know Robin Miller wants to see both sides together again but Robin needs to STFU because the Champ Car guys called him out for it again. Just when things get serious he starts igniting the merger talk rumors then gets all the motorsport press all lathered up and then.

If Robin Miller, or the media in general have the ability to take down merger talks, then there is something really wrong with the management of both sides. That is just an easy scapegoat for the big egos of people like Forsythe and Kalkhoven. If those guys wanted a merger to happen, it will happen. I refuse to believe Robin Miller has that much power, if any power at all.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:45 am

Smurfy wrote:lol - With my lousy vision, I'd swear that 7-Up Jordan says "osama" on the side

So far as following any racing series, I don't care what the cars look like if they are fast and the racing is good. I also have no problem with the look of the sleeker more modern F1 cars of the last 10 years. I am beginning to have a problem with the look of this year's cars with the funny front wings, but I don't mind that much. I'd also prefer if there were less funny little aero bits on them, but if they were to be removed I'd absolutely love the look of the cars of the last couple of years.

Smurf:

So how do the cars of the last 10 years fit your equation, considering that the racing in F1 has been almost non-existent in the last 10 years, since narrow-track chassis and grooved tires have been introduced?

Take care,
PK

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:26 pm

Well, I think my post had three parts to it:

1) Joke about that logo on the side of the 7-Up Jordan.
2) I don't watch any particular series based on the look of the car.
3) Regarding looks as a separate thing, I don't mind the looks of F1 cars of recent years.

I don't put too much effort into structuring my posts, and I think this was a case of that. So really my first sentence in the second paragraph had nothing to do with the rest of the paragraph.

In the same way, I was in no way trying to tie Eddie Jordan to Osama bin Laden (spelling?) :p

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:37 pm

DChaps wrote:If Robin Miller, or the media in general have the ability to take down merger talks, then there is something really wrong with the management of both sides.

My only contact with US racing journalism is the occasional read of an import copy of Racer magazine in my local Borders so I didn't want to comment on that initially, but I did wonder what it was about Robin Miller or the US media in general that had Kalkhoven and friends so spellbound. How exactly does a report in the news prevent everybody from sticking their heads down, sitting around the negotiating table and getting on with their business behind closed doors?

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:56 pm

Smurfy wrote:lol - With my lousy vision, I'd swear that 7-Up Jordan says "osama" on the side

It does. Osama Writing Instruments. I've missed something, haven't I?

Relatedly, I think I'm right in saying that the Bin Laden sponsorship Williams carried in the early 1980's or thereabouts came from Osama's parents, who ran a construction company in one of the Arab states.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:43 pm

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65087

2009 Dakar moved to South America

"The 2009 Dakar Rally will be staged in South America after this year's event was cancelled due to security concerns in Africa, organisers said on Monday.

The event for cars, trucks and motorcycles will take place in Argentina and Chile from January 3 to 18, a spokesman for the French organisers Amaury Sport Organisation (ASO) said.

The organisers did not say whether the event's name would be changed.

The new event will kick off from Buenos Aires on 3 January and, after 9,000 km, will return to the Argentinean capital on 18 January. 6,000 km will be timed.

"There will be sand, because that's typical of the Dakar, but there will also be new terrains the rally has never been on before," said the rally's director Etienne Lavigne.

The Dakar Rally, originally known as the Paris-Dakar, had always been staged entirely or mostly in Africa in its 30-year history.

It was cancelled for the first time last month due to security concerns in Mauritania where four French tourists were killed by suspected al Qaeda rebels in December.

Organisers had been warned against a "terrorist risk" in Mauritania by the French government."

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:04 pm

Rumors are swirling that Champ Car is on the brink of declaring bankruptcy. That's one way to unify open wheel racing; is bankruptcy the cleanest way to break Champ Car's 2008 race contracts?

As a life-long fan, my thoughts are "about damn time" at best and "10 f*cking years too late to be relevant" at worst. It has been painful to watch the sport spiral to its current level.

Hopefully this is a fresh storyline that can help relaunch the sport.

*edit - looks like Champ Car has decided not to declare bankruptcy. Will the merger happen now?

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:43 pm

Dave here's another update.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65096

Honda's Clarke optimistic of merger

By Steven English Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 11:03 GMT

Senior Honda advisor Robert Clarke is optimistic that an agreement on the Indy Racing League's proposed merger with Champ Car will be reached after promising talks were held in Japan yesterday.

IRL officials were hoping to convince the Japanese manufacturer to agree to move the race at its Motegi circuit to another date, to allow the Champ Car round at Long Beach on April 19 to be incorporated into the IRL schedule.

American newspaper the Indianapolis Star today suggested that Honda have accepted one of IRL boss Tony George's suggestions for a rescheduled event, after Clarke told them: "It was a good meeting. I don't see any reason not to be optimistic."

Clarke refused to confirm that any deal had been reached, saying that George must answer the questions.

But the series boss gave no further comment to the Indy Star than "nothing is going to happen quickly, if at all."

George is due back in America later today to discuss the result of the meeting in Japan with other senior IRL and Champ Car officials.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:56 pm

Walker's making the move away from Champ Car and thinks the series is toast. Does it count as a racing series if Gerry Forsythe and a PR guy are the only ones saying it exists?

In so many ways this clusterf*ck is the perfect ending to all these years of destruction.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:45 pm

Dave wrote:Walker's making the move away from Champ Car and thinks the series is toast. Does it count as a racing series if Gerry Forsythe and a PR guy are the only ones saying it exists?

In so many ways this clusterf*ck is the perfect ending to all these years of destruction.

It's nice to see them back together again and I wish them well. I lost interest in both series 5 years ago. For me it's all about Formula 1, WTCC, WRC, Dakar from here on out.

CrazyPsycho · Post by **CrazyPsycho** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:06 pm

Miracles do happen.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/stor ... id=3253353

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:00 am

Cool YouTube video collection of the best F1 passes of 2007:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/02/21/v ... s-of-2007/

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:59 pm

Not 2008-related in any sense except for it being the year in which I'm posting, but...while I'm in a childlike state of excitement at the rapidly approaching return of my beloved Formula One, I was reflecting an hour or two ago on the number of dull races I'd watched in recent years, and how that number seemed to increase exponentially when James Allen took over British commentary duties from the retiring Murray Walker. There were, of course, exactly as many dull races with Murray as there have been without him, but with his voice booming out of my telly a stare-out contest would have seemed exciting.

You probably know that not all of Murray's commentaries were without fault. In fact, most of them contained a Murrayism or two, and these links covering some of them had me in stitches. The second one is a load of sound clips with some stills of Murray on display so don't sit waiting for something to happen on screen - it won't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnXDEw3gqhk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0TZ_YLQSgg

The first link is especially notable for Murray's special timepiece about 17 seconds in, and he might have found the same timepiece handy 1:40 or so into the second link when he began filling in a red flag period during Monaco qualifying in 2000 or thereabouts. Notice also that a number of drivers seem capable of catching themselves up.

Murray's 84 now but has never got around to fully retiring. For the past couple of years he's done commentaries at each race for Honda's corporate guests, he commentates on the Clipsal 500 V8 Supercars race in Adelaide, did the GP Masters for British TV and covered one race for BBC Radio 5 Live last year. The race was the Nurburgring event, and with everything that happened there it could have been a total mess to listen to, but I had the TV sound muted with Murray's radio commentary playing and the old pro didn't miss a trick all weekend.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:55 pm

Here, here Adam. I'm also counting the days to the start of the Formula 1 like a five year old waiting for Christmas morning.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:22 am

Adam:

As someone who works in the motorsport industry, I'm generally unimpressed when meeting personalities in the sport.

But one of the true sublime pleasures of my professional and personal life was meeting and spending 10 minutes chatting with Murray Walker at the first USGP at Indy in 2000. My colleague and good friend, Stuart Sykes, has worked in F1 for more than 30 years as a team and circuit press officer, and Stu was a consultant for us for the first six USGP's at Indy.

Stu is close with Murray, and I told Stu how much I admired Murray's infectious enthusiasm for the sport. Stu said he would introduce me to Murray, and I figured it would be a handshake, pleasantries, and that's it.

Nope. Murray came over to my cramped work area, said hi to Stuart and introduced himself to me. We chatted for a good 10 minutes.

Murray is just as nice and enthusiastic in "real life" as he is on the telly. He came over a few more times that first weekend to chat with Stu and I. It was wonderful.

I also was privileged to be a guest at Murray's "farewell party" at the 2001 USGP, at which every F1 driver, Bernie, most of the team principals and other F1 luminaries were present. It was a wonderful evening.

Enough of my rambling. I hope I don't sound like a glory-seeking prat. The bottom line is, Murray Walker is a wonderful, warm man who arguably has contributed as much to the legacy of F1 as any driver.

The term "legend" is overused. It's almost insufficient for Murray Walker.

Take care,
PK