DSP Boxing thread. Ding! Ding!

[pk500]

Getting hit for 25 min with those tiny gloves and some feet and knees seems much more violent than 36 min with giant pads on your hands. Maybe it's just me.

Not a huge fan of either sport really because of all of the politics and corruption but I'll tune in occasionally.

Those "giant pads" are not soft. I train with 14-ounce bag gloves, and they hurt when you get hit with them. So 8- or 10-ounce competition gloves, combined with full wraps, are weapons.

The brand of glove also makes a difference. For example, Cleto Reyes are puncher's gloves. There is less padding over the knuckles and more padding on the back of the hand. Devastating, but risky for guys with brittle hands. On the other hand (pun intended), Grant gloves are favorites of guys with hand problems due to the concentration of padding over the knuckles and fingers. Mayweather, who has brittle hands, wears Grants.

[Aristo]

UFC sucks.

Word. And boxing is FAR more violent than UFC. Boxers take repeated blows to the head, many more than UFC fighters. Plus, as Holm proved last night, the hardest punchers in the world are boxers, not MMA fighters.

I'll double down on Bill's accurate proclamation: UFC really sucks. Boxing forever.

Just my opinion but boxing is exponentially more entertaining and the more pure of the two. To each his own.



And UFC sucks.

You know, I held this sentiment for a long time. But watching Conor McGregor fight one night while channel surfing got me a little interested. So I just started watching fights now and then on Foz Sports, and I feel a lot differently now.

For one, arguing which sport is more violent is kind of pointless to me. It's not the violence in the sports that interests me, but the strategy involved to avoid or inflict that pain. Both sports reward strategy and execution over brute force. So arguing that boring is more violent has zero impact on whether I find it more enjoyable.

In fact, what I found was that the vast array of styles in MMA really forces the fighters to be much more strategic in their avoidance of their opponents strength and their weakness. Once I started understanding some of the strategy, MMA felt like a million more times intense, as a simple mistake could get on in a lot of trouble. But escaping trouble is just as much of an art form.

If you had asked me two years ago, I would have said MMA sucks and lamented the decline of boxing. I'm still not a devoted fight fan of either sport, but I I will get sucked into watching a lot of UFC now when channel surfing. The more I watch, the more fascinating I find it.

The other part of this is that UFC is filled with collegiate wrestlers and an entire array of martial arts experts in addition to some former boxers. There is no doubt in my mind that the MMA is filled with far more intelligent athletes than boxing, on the whole. The sport gets a really bad rap because of the horrific way it began, when Ultimate Fighting was less sport and more bloodsport spectacle. But it is a completely different beast today.

That said, as much as I tried to enjoy the UFC game by EA, it was too crazy hard to master. I'll take a boing game over it in a heartbeat. But I will still give UFC 2 a shot. When the first game came out, I'm not sure I could name a single fighter. Now I have an interest in watching several guys and women.

As for Holm's win over Rousey, it was a textbook example of strategy over brute force, and Rousey was an Olympic medalist in Judo. Bit I think Rousey was starting to to coast and overestimated her ability because the media and everyone around her was feeding her that view. I'm not saying the wasn't fit and hadn't trained hard. But her inability to adjust means she failed to train for contingencies. She had gotten too used to winning on her terms, and Holm changed those terms violently.

[Inuyasha]

I don't follow UFC but that Rousey lady was getting super annoying. She was like in every freaking non UFC sports show or segment trying to make her sport more mainstream.

She was like those 2 patriot fans in those fan duel commericals.

Trying too hard for too much exposure.

[Aristo]

I don't follow UFC but that Rousey lady was getting super annoying. She was like in every freaking non UFC sports show or segment trying to make her sport more mainstream.

She was like those 2 patriot fans in those fan duel commericals.

Trying too hard for too much exposure.

Yeah, that's what's annoying about the UFC.

[pk500]

I don't follow UFC but that Rousey lady was getting super annoying. She was like in every freaking non UFC sports show or segment trying to make her sport more mainstream.

She was like those 2 patriot fans in those fan duel commericals.

Trying too hard for too much exposure.

That's ridiculous. Rousey's rise is completely organic. She's a bad-ass in the Octagon who also scrubs up very well on the red carpet. That's marketing and PR gold.

As for the "decline" of boxing, the sport may have declined in American public awareness. But it's still very robust in nearly every other region on Earth. The Bell Centre in Montreal -- home of the Habs -- routinely sells out for fights. Klitschko puts 50,000 into soccer stadiums in Germany for his fights. Carl Froch and George Groves fought before nearly 80,000 in Wembley in London.

Boxing has lost its toehold in America because big fights weren't on free or basic cable TV until the birth of PBC this year. And PBC doesn't match its fighters tough, so we end up with a bunch of mismatches on network and cable TV in PBC fights.

UFC is no more exciting or vibrant than boxing inside its competitive arena. It's not bigger than boxing worldwide. But the sport absolutely kicks boxing's ass in two ways, due to the monopoly Dana White holds over fighter contracts and promotion. UFC promotes and markets its athletes through all media platforms far better than boxing, and it does a much better job of matching its fighters in competitive bouts.

A loss is no big deal in UFC. Almost no top fighter stays unbeaten. But the putrid reign of Floyd Mayweather, with his dogged protection of his unbeaten status, has hurt boxing. No great fighter before Mayweather was unbeaten except for Marciano, and he's not even a top-five all-time heavyweight. But now boxing, thanks to that f*ck Mayweather, has a stigma that a fighter is shot once he loses for the first time.

That must change. Now.

[Rodster]

If Boxing is to make a comeback it needs to be on terrestrial TV. Only the hard core are willing to pay money to watch Mayweather challenge declining opponents and just do his defensive stuff. It's boring and not worth the money. The lesser cards are just that even if those fights are more exciting.

People will pay to watch fights like the Gatti vs Ward trilogy but not fights with predicted outcomes. And just like any other sport free TV is where you get most of your fan exposure. And IIRC the UFC maybe doing free fights on the Fox network.

[pk500]

If Boxing is to make a comeback it needs to be on terrestrial TV. Only the hard core are willing to pay money to watch Mayweather challenge declining opponents and just do his defensive stuff. It's boring and not worth the money. The lesser cards are just that even if those fights are more exciting.

It IS on terrestrial TV. The PBC is putting on more fights on TV than the UFC. But there are two problems.

One, the PBC fights are spread on an array of networks -- CBS, NBC Sports Network, Spike, TruTV and ESPN. It's much easier for UFC to tune to the FOX family of broadcast and cable networks to find UFC. Plus the PBC is making crap fights as PBC boss Al Haymon -- one of the architects of Mayweather's slavish devotion to remaining unbeaten -- matches his fighters soft.

Mayweather is incredibly skilled and boring. No doubt. But that's the problem with people who say "boxing is dead" -- they're lazy as f*ck. There is a TON of talent in boxing right now, even among Americans. Yes, it's not all on terrestrial TV, but neither are the top fighters in UFC. They're on PPV, too.

But Americans are too lazy to actually find the fights with elite prospects, even when on HBO or Showtime. Those fights are all on YouTube within a day or two. And the PBC puts all of its fights on YouTube in HD.

Watch Golovkin. Watch Sergei Kovalev. Watch Chocolatito Gonzalez. Watch Canelo Alvarez. Watch Miguel Cotto. Watch Terence Crawford. Watch Tim Bradley. Watch Ruslan Provodnikov. Watch Andy Lee. Then tell me boxing is dying.

In fact, whet your appetite with this rarest of barnburners -- a superb fight from the PBC, a few weeks ago. A Fight of the Year candidate:

[dbdynsty25]

Getting hit for 25 min with those tiny gloves and some feet and knees seems much more violent than 36 min with giant pads on your hands. Maybe it's just me.

Not a huge fan of either sport really because of all of the politics and corruption but I'll tune in occasionally.

Those "giant pads" are not soft. I train with 14-ounce bag gloves, and they hurt when you get hit with them. So 8- or 10-ounce competition gloves, combined with full wraps, are weapons.

The brand of glove also makes a difference. For example, Cleto Reyes are puncher's gloves. There is less padding over the knuckles and more padding on the back of the hand. Devastating, but risky for guys with brittle hands. On the other hand (pun intended), Grant gloves are favorites of guys with hand problems due to the concentration of padding over the knuckles and fingers. Mayweather, who has brittle hands, wears Grants.

It's weird that there are multiple types of gloves to favor different types of boxers/hands. I'd think it would be uniform. Interesting for sure, but I'd still rather get hit with a boxing glove compared to the small mitten the UFC guys are rocking. Hard or not.

[pk500]

It's weird that there are multiple types of gloves to favor different types of boxers/hands. I'd think it would be uniform. Interesting for sure, but I'd still rather get hit with a boxing glove compared to the small mitten the UFC guys are rocking. Hard or not.

Newton's second law of motion: Force = Mass x acceleration.

More mass, more force. Eight to 10 ounces weighs more than 4.

You could make a case that an MMA fighter could strike with greater acceleration due to the smaller mass of the glove. But I doubt the acceleration is double or more that of a boxer wearing a glove that has double or more the size of mass of an MMA glove.

Plus boxers are better punchers than MMA fighters. Just ask Ronda Rousey.

[Diablo25]

If Boxing is to make a comeback it needs to be on terrestrial TV. Only the hard core are willing to pay money to watch Mayweather challenge declining opponents and just do his defensive stuff. It's boring and not worth the money. The lesser cards are just that even if those fights are more exciting.

It IS on terrestrial TV. The PBC is putting on more fights on TV than the UFC. But there are two problems.

One, the PBC fights are spread on an array of networks -- CBS, NBC Sports Network, Spike, TruTV and ESPN. It's much easier for UFC to tune to the FOX family of broadcast and cable networks to find UFC. Plus the PBC is making crap fights as PBC boss Al Haymon -- one of the architects of Mayweather's slavish devotion to remaining unbeaten -- matches his fighters soft.

Mayweather is incredibly skilled and boring. No doubt. But that's the problem with people who say "boxing is dead" -- they're lazy as f*ck. There is a TON of talent in boxing right now, even among Americans. Yes, it's not all on terrestrial TV, but neither are the top fighters in UFC. They're on PPV, too.

But Americans are too lazy to actually find the fights with elite prospects, even when on HBO or Showtime. Those fights are all on YouTube within a day or two. And the PBC puts all of its fights on YouTube in HD.

Watch Golovkin. Watch Sergei Kovalev. Watch Chocolatito Gonzalez. Watch Canelo Alvarez. Watch Miguel Cotto. Watch Terence Crawford. Watch Tim Bradley. Watch Ruslan Provodnikov. Watch Andy Lee. Then tell me boxing is dying.

In fact, whet your appetite with this rarest of barnburners -- a superb fight from the PBC, a few weeks ago. A Fight of the Year candidate:

Don't forget Philly fighter Danny Garcia

[pk500]

Don't forget Philly fighter Danny Garcia

Garcia is an example of everything that is WRONG with the PBC.

"Swift" was one of the hottest young prospects in boxing when he signed with Al Haymon and the PBC. Since then, he has fought only twice per year against middling competition. Haymon is trying to protect him, just like his other top-drawer PBC stars.

That ill-advised strategy, combined with Garcia's big mouth while defending himself against criticism, has caused Garcia to transform from a potential American fan favorite to one of the most reviled fighters by true boxing fans. Ask any hardcore fight fan to name the three fighters they hate the most, and chances are you'll hear Floyd Mayweather, Guillermo Rigondeaux, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., Adrien Broner, Danny Garcia and Andre Ward among the three names mentioned.

Common link between all of those names: Primadonna sh*theads who would rather talk than fight, boring us endlessly.

[Rodster]

Rousey v Holm rematch in Las Vegas July 9, 2016. Dana White didn't want Holm fighting again until Rousey was ready. I'm smelling a Rousey win via a wink wink, nod nod approval from the top.

[pk500]

Rousey v Holm rematch in Las Vegas July 9, 2016. Dana White didn't want Holm fighting again until Rousey was ready. I'm smelling a Rousey win via a wink wink, nod nod approval from the top.

Will that wink-wink nod-nod teach Rousey how to box? Without that skill, she won't beat Holm regardless of any chicanery.

[Diablo25]

UFC sucks.

Revisiting this. I see on ESPN.com that the Macgregor dude knocked the other dude out in like 10 seconds. Nice premier fight. f***in joke. Dana White must laugh all the way to the bank with this s***. I repeat - UFC sucks.

[Gangrel]

I have no dog in this fight, but I'm sure there have been tons of "premier" boxing fights that haven't lasted too much longer......

[Aristo]

The other thing to consider, if value is an issue, while McGregor/Aldo was the mammoth sized draw, it was actually the co-premiere fight on the card, as Chris Weidemen, 13-0 as a champion, defended his middleweight title. And that match as an epic battle, as the challenger unexpectedly took control of the fight in the third round, and ended Weidemen's reign in the fourth.

The fight before that saw Ronaldo Souza, known as The Alligator, go down in a split decision to Yoel Romero. Romero dominated the crap out of Souza in the first, but I thought Souza won the next two rounds. Regardless, it was fascinating watching Souza's Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Like a Gator, he climbed in to Romero's back, wrapped him up and dragged him under, where he held him in place, pummeling Romero, who smehow held on to win.

The fight before that was a three round chess match between grapplers fighting for position, as Demian Maia won by unanimous decision over Gunnar Nelson. Maia used a similar climb the back strategy, but Nelson was better prepared to get him off. The problem was, it took him so long that he never had time to score points himself.

And I missed the first fight. But the massive hype and hatred both Aldo and McGregor had for each other made that outcome shocking, and still worth having paid for. It was the first UFC fight I bought, and it was worth every penny. I don't know how often I will buy fights, but McGregor is fascinating in combination of Ali and Tyson kind of way.

It was a fun night of UFC.

[pk500]

I don't know how often I will buy fights, but McGregor is fascinating in combination of Ali and Tyson kind of way.

Please don't compare that little, unimaginative circus clown leprechaun to the inventor and all-time king of trash talk.

[Aristo]

I don't know how often I will buy fights, but McGregor is fascinating in combination of Ali and Tyson kind of way.

Please don't compare that little, unimaginative circus clown leprechaun to the inventor and all-time king of trash talk.

I rest my case!

[Diablo25]

UFC sucks.

Revisiting this. I see on ESPN.com that the Macgregor dude knocked the other dude out in like 10 seconds. Nice premier fight. f***in joke. Dana White must laugh all the way to the bank with this s***. I repeat - UFC sucks.

I wake up this morning to ESPN.com's front page littered with more stories/videos of UFC 1st and 2nd round knockouts. Again, I just don't see the draw of it. Watching the highlight of a fight is like watching the whole fight...they are about the same length. To each his own though.

[Rodster]

I wake up this morning to ESPN.com's front page littered with more stories/videos of UFC 1st and 2nd round knockouts. Again, I just don't see the draw of it. Watching the highlight of a fight is like watching the whole fight...they are about the same length. To each his own though.

Like I said earlier, the UFC is an ultra violent sport. When you can grab and takedown an opponent with your hands and legs and fighters risk having body parts broken if they don't tap out, most fights don't last too long. And it's precisely why the UFC is so popular these days. You get fights that are over pretty quick and there's little to NO dancing in the ring. Btw i'm not a huge fan of the sport. I'm more intrigued like watching a 100 car pileup on the freeway.

[pk500]

I wake up this morning to ESPN.com's front page littered with more stories/videos of UFC 1st and 2nd round knockouts. Again, I just don't see the draw of it. Watching the highlight of a fight is like watching the whole fight...they are about the same length. To each his own though.

Like I said earlier, the UFC is an ultra violent sport. When you can grab and takedown an opponent with your hands and legs and fighters risk having body parts broken if they don't tap out, most fights don't last too long. And it's precisely why the UFC is so popular these days. You get fights that are over pretty quick and there's little to NO dancing in the ring. Btw i'm not a huge fan of the sport. I'm more intrigued like watching a 100 car pileup on the freeway.

There's little to no dancing because almost all of the fighters are mediocre boxers, at best, and would rather grapple or use leg kicks. Holm proved a good boxer can destroy an MMA "bad-ass" like Rousey. And there's no doubt in my mind that a solid boxer who made the transition to MMA could destroy that little leprechaun f*ck McGregor, too.

One of the greatest myths of MMA is that it's all-action. What a crock of sh*t. Grappling and holds lasting 10 or more seconds while on the mat, which are fairly common in longer fights, are MMA's version of clinching.

[Rodster]

I wake up this morning to ESPN.com's front page littered with more stories/videos of UFC 1st and 2nd round knockouts. Again, I just don't see the draw of it. Watching the highlight of a fight is like watching the whole fight...they are about the same length. To each his own though.

Like I said earlier, the UFC is an ultra violent sport. When you can grab and takedown an opponent with your hands and legs and fighters risk having body parts broken if they don't tap out, most fights don't last too long. And it's precisely why the UFC is so popular these days. You get fights that are over pretty quick and there's little to NO dancing in the ring. Btw i'm not a huge fan of the sport. I'm more intrigued like watching a 100 car pileup on the freeway.

There's little to no dancing because almost all of the fighters are mediocre boxers, at best, and would rather grapple or use leg kicks. Holm proved a good boxer can destroy an MMA "bad-ass" like Rousey. And there's no doubt in my mind that a solid boxer who made the transition to MMA could destroy that little leprechaun f*ck McGregor, too.

One of the greatest myths of MMA is that it's all-action. What a crock of sh*t. Grappling and holds lasting 10 or more seconds while on the mat, which are fairly common in longer fights, are MMA's version of clinching.

But that's your opinion because you are a Boxing fan. It's like trying to convince an Apple user to say good things about Android. Look I have no skin in the game for either Sport. I'm no longer a Boxing fan as I was in the 80's and I certainly don't follow the UFC. I was more intrigued about the impact Rousey had on the sport.

A few years ago Jim Rome interviewed "Money" and Jim brought up the subject of the UFC since "Money" was mouthing off how he could beat anybody. So Jim Rome brought up the UFC and Money said he would destroy any UFC fighter. So then, some UFC fighters publicly challenged him to step in the Octagon, he backed then off he could beat any UFC fighter. As you know it's all about matchups. Some fighters do better against other styles than others even within their own Sport. It'll be interesting to see how Rousey does in her rematch.

[pk500]

First, it's not opinion. I know striking skills and boxing footwork, and I have seen few of those skills in MMA fighters that rival even mid-level pro boxers. Then again, MMA fighters are far superior for grappling and leg kicks because they train those skills.

And there's no stalling through holds in MMA, especially in rounds that last five minutes? Seriously. Come on, man. It's as common as clinching in boxing.

Mayweather would destroy any UFC fighter in his weight class -- in a boxing match. The outcome would be comical, watching MMA fighters with their clumsy boxing skills claw and paw at air as Mayweather stuck and moved. I doubt Mayweather could detonate an MMA fighter the way Holm did to Rousey because Money doesn't have grappling or kicking skills, and he lacks power in his fists. But if he could stay off the ground, he would box an MMA athlete into oblivion with ease.

It's a moot argument, anyways. Comparing MMA and boxing athletes makes about as much sense as comparing American football players and rugby players because they both play in sports that involve tackling. Completely different disciplines. You know which one I prefer.

[Aristo]

First, it's not opinion. I know striking skills, and I have seen few in MMA fighters that rival even mid-level pro boxers. Then again, MMA fighters are far superior for grappling and leg kicks because they train those skills.

And there's no stalling through holds in UFC? Seriously. Come on, man. It's as common as clinching in boxing.

Mayweather would destroy any UFC fighter in his weight class -- in a boxing match. The outcome would be comical, watching MMA fighters with their clumsy boxing skills claw and paw at air as Mayweather stuck and moved.

I agree with you here. MMA and Boxing are two different sports. I don't think either one of them is more pure, or objectively better. I doubt the best MMA fighters could go toe to toe with the best boxers in a boxing match. I also don't think the best boxers could go toe to toe wit the best MMA fighters in an MMA match. We may as well argue about Superman can beat up Batman.

In MMA you have plenty of collegiate wrestlers, black belts, and Olympic athletes all working to figure out the best way to win matches. So yeah, if collegiate wrestling sucks, Olympic Judo sucks, and mastering martial arts sucks, then there is really no draw to the UFC. But I see a ton of really smart dedicated athletes participating in a sport that is a lot more complicated than some of you are making it out to be.

Normal UFC fights are 3 five minute rounds. Championship bouts are 5 five minute rounds Instead of just being vulnerable to a big punch, fighters also have to be aware of every position they find themselves in, standing or on the ground. I don't get why anyone would use the 1st and 2nd round knockouts against the sport. The fight before McGregor's 13 second knockout was a championship bout that went to the 4th round, and it was long, brutal, and strategic.

[pk500]

Agree, Aristo. But I still find it humorous that a fight lasting 20 minutes is considered "long." Try 36 minutes. Or in the days before the Duk Koo Kim tragedy, 45 minutes.

Still, one of the best moves boxing ever made was to reduce championship fights from 15 to 12 rounds. Some of the cumulative punishment guys took in the 13th, 14th and 15th rounds was savage. Just look at the 13th and 14th rounds of the Thrilla in Manila as an example. Ali told his trainer, Angelo Dundee, to cut off his gloves after the 14th round because he lacked the strength to leave his stool for the 15th round. Dundee ignored him. At the same time, Frazier's trainer, Eddie Futch, was telling referee Carlos Padilla that Smokin' Joe was done.

"It's all over. No one will forget what you did here today." Those were Futch's famous words to Frazier when Smokin' Joe protested Futch's decision to stop the fight. Futch's two sentences were among the most humane and true in boxing history and may have saved Frazier's life. I consider those two sentences to be the Gettysburg Address of The Sweet Science.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Ali and Frazier both sliced years from their respective lives with that effort in the steamy heat of Manila. Remember, that fight took place at 10 a.m. local time in oppressive heat and humidity. Didn't help that the coliseum where the fight took place had an aluminum roof.