OT: Drug Legalization

[ProvoAnC]

First let me say that my stance on drug legalization is "I don't f***in care." If some asshole wants to fry his brains on crack, that's his problem. Just the same as it is if some asshole wants to drive drunk and smash into a tree. Laws should not be here to protect individuals, but rather to protect victims.

Now, the topic of discussion:

If drugs were to be legalized, what do you think the economic impact would be on high crime/high drug communities?

Illegal drugs: drug user usually has to go to a high crime area to get drugs-may get ripped off, may get robbed, may get killed, and may not get good product.

Legal drugs: drug user goes to Walmart and gets what they want-no risk of being robbed, killed, etc. and the user will know they are getting a good product.

So, what do those "communities" do when their main source of income has gone?

Discuss...

[F308GTB]

Legal drugs - drug users have more access and likely feed their habits even more. Need more drugs. Run out of money. End up trying to rob Walmarts pharmacy. Society still loses out.

I'm not too up on the drug culture, but I do know that there are some drug recipes du jour (e.g., "cheese") that utilize over the counter drugs. There's been plenty of shoplifting associated with those, deaths of teens, etc.

And even if you sell legally, I'd be willing to bet there'd still be a thriving black market for drugs. Someone is always looking to undercut the competition to make a score. This may mean less quality product --> more deaths and permanent mental/physical disabilities we taxpayers have to support.

Alcohol is a drug. As you mentioned, some idiot can drive drunk and smash into a tree. See what legalized selling of alcohol has done for our society? Unfortunately it's socially acceptable" but it's still a drug. The need to drink alcohol is a mental weakness in my opinion. There are plenty of safe ways to relieve mentlal/physical stress (which physiologically alcohol doesn't actually do) or have a good time.

[JRod]

Whoa we now consider someone who drinks alcohol as mentally weak.

Alcoholism and having a drink are two different things. If I have a glass of wine at dinner, or I have a beer during the ball game that should be considered bad.

Alcoholism whether someone is genetically disposed or abuses alcohol is the compulsion of not stopping with 1 beer or 3 beers or 10 beers. Its the constant addictive nature that gets you so inebriated you can't function in society.


I think we need to take a stop back from what pleases us as the individual to what is good for society. My criteria is simply this...would our society be better off in marijuana was sold legally like in Holland. What about other harder drugs? For me personally, I can't say I want this country to legalize drugs just so a select few can get high. Seems those wanting legal marijuana are only concerned with their "state of happiness" and not society as a whole.

[Leebo33]

The need to drink alcohol is a mental weakness in my opinion. There are plenty of safe ways to relieve mentlal/physical stress (which physiologically alcohol doesn't actually do) or have a good time.

Absolutely, and hopefully NASA can get rid of all the mentally-weak astronauts

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0707/27astrohealth/

Even if they legalized drugs today I think it would be a long time until places like Wal-Mart would sell it. As you mentioned, the theft of over-the-counter medications is a huge problem and caused stores to move a lot of items to the pharmacy if they have one.

There would still definitely be a gray market for legal drugs. Look at baby formula. The sales of baby formula in a lot of retail stores actually increased after they started locking it up because it was getting stolen so frequently that legit customers couldn't find it.

[F308GTB]

The need to drink alcohol is a mental weakness in my opinion. There are plenty of safe ways to relieve mentlal/physical stress (which physiologically alcohol doesn't actually do) or have a good time.

Absolutely, and hopefully NASA can get rid of all the mentally-weak astronauts

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0707/27astrohealth/

No arguments from me. If an astronaut has to drink, boot the sucker out of the astronaut corps. If they need a little something to take the edge off a flight, I don't want them. I've worked hard making sure the hardware I send to space is safe. I don't want some idiot jeopardizing the work of thousands because he/she couldn't fly sober.

Face it, in many cultures alcohol is simply used as an escape mechanism. While there may be some debateable physical benefit, primarily its use is as a drug (again, a "socially acceptable" one). My complaint with alcohol is that most who use it, use it with the intent of being responsible. However, because it does affect you mentally, you can easily go over the top and put me or someone I care for in harm's way. "Having a drink" can easily result in deadly consequences. Mix dehydration with a drink or two and you have a serious problem. Think about that next time you are out boating, enjoying an outdoor picnic on a hot day with the family, or at open air stadium is warm weather. Unfortunately not everyone does.

[wco81]

NPR had an author on who researched the history of meth.

It started with some war vets who started selling it and using bikers in the '60s and '70s to distribute it.

Then the bikers figured out how to make it and went into business for themselves.

Then a lot of "mom and pop" meth labs appeared because it was easy to make with easily obtained items.

So the government started to control the distribution of these ingredients, basically killing off the cottage industry.

But there was market demand so Mexican gangs got into it. They hired professional chemists and made more potent stuff, raised prices and brought crime with it because they were more ruthless than the smaller operations which used to make and distribute it.

There are a lot of experts who think decriminalizing drugs would reduce a lot of the violent crime associated with drugs. If we exchanged some of the violent crime for petty crime like junkies shoplifting drugs, that might be okay.

But there are a lot of gangs involved in drug trafficking so they'd have to get into something else to replace any lost income. Maybe more auto theft or carjackings, maybe more armed robberies.

[pk500]

Peter Tosh was right. 'Nuff said.

Take care,
PK

[Brando70]

I would try legalizing pot for five years and study the effects. Make it pretty regulated where you have to buy it from authorized government centers, not retail stores that could be robbery targets. Limit how much one person can buy, but keep it affordable so people aren't stealing to feed their habits. I imagine there would be a rise in usage, but I also think the benefits of not having law enforcement chasing pot growers would help focus on curbing more dangerous drugs. I think pot is a drug that can be used in recreation without creating a lot of adverse problems. The difficulties would be about the same as alcohol (driving under the influence, getting baked before school, etc.), which exist whether pot is legal or not.

If, after five years, usage spiked and crime didn't really seem to be affected, I'd consider making it illegal again.

For harder drugs, I'm not so sure. Opiates like coke and heroin are so addictive that I think it's difficult to justify legalizing them. LSD and PCP are so powerful that I also think they're too dangerous. I suppose legalizing mushrooms could be tried since the effects aren't as potent or long-lasting. Ecstasy is another tough call since it can be fatal.

[James_E]

Well, if people smoked a bunch of pot instead of drinking 12 beers and doing shooters, then instead of bar fights and fights occurring in the streets after the bars close, you'd have a bunch of people laughing at each other and eating everything in sight. Helluva lot less dangerous than the drunk violent assholes. Weed seems to mellow people out, even those predisposed to be the type to start fights.

[dieselboy]

Peter Tosh was right. 'Nuff said.

Take care,
PK

Don't criticize it....and I will advertise it...


Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

[greggsand]

I wish they were legal right now. Make em illegal again tomorrow.

[fsquid]

I must have a hell of a mental weakness then!

[FatPitcher]

If people committed a lot of theft and armed robbery to afford electronics, that has no bearing on whether electronics should be legal. Same with drugs. As long as you're not making yourself a threat to other people's well-being or infringing on their rights, you should be able to do whatever you want. Of course, that kind of legal philosophy would work better in a country where people accepted responsibility for the consequence of their actions. Here, it would probably be a mess of lawsuits from people trying to cash in on their own idiocy and risky behavior.

[pk500]

If people committed a lot of theft and armed robbery to afford electronics, that has no bearing on whether electronics should be legal. Same with drugs. As long as you're not making yourself a threat to other people's well-being or infringing on their rights, you should be able to do whatever you want. Of course, that kind of legal philosophy would work better in a country where people accepted responsibility for the consequence of their actions. Here, it would probably be a mess of lawsuits from people trying to cash in on their own idiocy and risky behavior.

Flawlessly said, FatP.

Take care,
PK

[James_E]

As long as you're not making yourself a threat to other people's well-being or infringing on their rights, you should be able to do whatever you want.

Not if what you're doing causes yourself harm, and said harm causes services paid for by MY taxes (ie. healthcare) to have to take care of you, on my dime.

[wco81]

More driving under the influence violations perhaps?

[Naples39]

As long as you're not making yourself a threat to other people's well-being or infringing on their rights, you should be able to do whatever you want.

Mike Vick totally agrees with you.

[Brando70]

More driving under the influence violations perhaps?

I doubt you'd see a rise in those with pot legalization. People who would drive under the influence of marijuana are already doing so. Legalization wouldn't make much of a difference.

I don't think the illegality of drugs really keeps usage down that much. It might make it more of a hassle to obtain, but people that really want to do it will find a way to do it without too much trouble, especially when it comes to smoking pot. Legalization would probably increase usage because the supply would be easier to get, but I'm really not sure you'd have a lot of people suddenly trying pot because it's now legal.

Also, while there is a societal cost associated with any unhealthy behavior, I really don't see how people smoking marijuana on their private property is so wrong. Yes, you shouldn't drive under the influence, come to work or school stoned, or otherwise get it control your life. But I've known plenty of people who are completely functional, successful members of society who still like to get baked every so often.

We experimented with prohibition and then changed our minds after it didn't work very well. I think we could do the same with marijuana legalization.

[ProvoAnC]

But there are a lot of gangs involved in drug trafficking so they'd have to get into something else to replace any lost income. Maybe more auto theft or carjackings, maybe more armed robberies.

This is what I'm asking about...not the right or wrong of legalizing drugs.

What would all the mopes do without drugs? They aint gonna get a job and become a productive member of society. Would their criminality extend further into what wco is talking about?

[ProvoAnC]

I thought this was funny from another forum I visit...just showing that a lot of things in this word are not black and white:

"You know, after watching that link, I am truly f***in convinced that we should now legalize all drugs, everything, over the counter, at your local Walgreens, 7-11, f***, why not have the girl scouts sell it door to door, I mean if it works for that superpower of a country who's GNP is based on wooden f***in shoes, why cant it work for us?"