Soccer thread 07/08

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RobVarak
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Post by RobVarak »

MACTEPsporta wrote:[
Rob, I disagree with you as well. I think Babel could be used successfully as a winger. He just can't be used in the 4-4-2, because he clearly doesn't like to track back and defend, but in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 he can be useful. And don't think I didn't understand who you were hinting at with your "one-trick pony... run down the wing, drag the ball inside for a right-footed shot" comment :)
Honestly, I didn't even think of that LOL But if the shoe fits...

He can't cross worth a s***. To me that's a fatal flaw in almost outside player in top-flight football in any formation.
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Post by MACTEPsporta »

Jimmydeicide wrote:You know why he doesnt track back to defend ? Because hes a forward.
You play too much football manager.
As intelligent as this argument has all the making of becoming, I can't help but reply. Jimmy, I hate to break it to you, but there are other places other than footy manager games, where you would find formations and line-ups. Rob's basement, for example.

Now, let's get back to your claim, that Babel doesn't defend because he is a forward. In order to explain I will, again, have to throw formations at you, so bear with me. Babel has spent the better part of the past two years playing as a winger in Benitez's 4-4-2. That is the LM (left midfield) position. Same as David Beckham occupied back in his days at Manchester and Madrid, just on the opposite side. Hardly an out and out forward postion, right? This role also requires a fair amount of defending, I hope you will agree. Sure he is a converted forward, but he is young and two years should be enough for anyone to learn and adjust. However, since his upside, obviously, is his attacking prowess I suggested that Benitez reverted to a formation that allows him to concetrate more on attacking and less on defending, that's where the 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 come into play. These two formations have also proved to be more successfull for Liverpool lately, mainly for the reasons stated above.
Last edited by MACTEPsporta on Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MACTEPsporta »

RobVarak wrote: He can't cross worth a s***. To me that's a fatal flaw in almost outside player in top-flight football in any formation.
It's a flaw, but not a fatal one. That's the beauty of having the right-footed player on the left. Messi, who I am sure you will agree, is one of the best wingers in the world, can't cross either, and that's why he is on the right. When playing in 4-3-3 wingers are looked at more as attackers and supplying the ball from the wing, while still an option, is no longer vital. You will always have overlapping runs of the full backs if you need to fire in a quality cross, but what Babel, Messi and Ronaldinho bring to the table (in different quantities, of course), is the ability to turn the defense around by going toward the middle, versus the corner flag. Often times that will produce a shot opportuniy, or will allow someone to get open in the box.

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Post by RobVarak »

I'd accept your argument if Babel were as good as Messi. :)
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Post by MACTEPsporta »

RobVarak wrote:I'd accept your argument if Babel were as good as Messi. :)
If he was he wouldn't be playing for Liverpool. :) You can't have it all, you know. He has a chance to become a very good player. We shall see.

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Post by Jimmydeicide »

MACTEPsporta wrote:
Jimmydeicide wrote:You know why he doesnt track back to defend ? Because hes a forward.
You play too much football manager.
As intelligent as this argument has all the making of becoming, I can't help but reply. Jimmy, I hate to break it to you, but there are other places other than footy manager games, where you would find formations and line-ups. Rob's basement, for example.

Now, let's get back to your claim, that Babel doesn't defend because he is a forward. In order to explain I will, again, have to throw formations at you, so bear with me. Babel has spent the better part of the past two years playing as a winger in Benitez's 4-4-2. That is the LM (left midfield) position. Same as David Beckham occupied back in his days at Manchester and Madrid, just on the opposite side. Hardly an out and out forward postion, right? This role also requires a fair amount of defending, I hope you will agree. Sure he is a converted forward, but he is young and two years should be enough for anyone to learn and adjust. However, since his upside, obviously, is his attacking prowess I suggested that Benitez reverted to a formation that allows him to concetrate more on attacking and less on defending, that's where the 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 come into play. These two formations have also proved to be more successfull for Liverpool lately, mainly for the reasons stated above.

Im not saying he shouldnt play the position hes put in properly ie do some defending as well if hes in midfield , i guess im saying hes grown up as a forward so that is his mentality, to not get back and not have to lift your head to look for options.

Maybe the game has passed me by, with all these fancy formations your throwing out there. It used to be a simple game.

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Post by MACTEPsporta »

Formations have been a big part of football for the last 50-60 years. Who can forget the famous 4-2-4 of Brazil in the 60's, or the diamond of Argentina in the 70's and 80's? If you managed to miss that, you probably weren't looking closely enough.

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Post by JRod »

MACTEPsporta wrote:Formations have been a big part of football for the last 50-60 years. Who can forget the famous 4-2-4 of Brazil in the 60's, or the diamond of Argentina in the 70's and 80's? If you managed to miss that, you probably weren't looking closely enough.
You are arguing with two Liverpool fans, logic and reason, is not a part of the debate.
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Post by Jimmydeicide »

MACTEPsporta wrote:Formations have been a big part of football for the last 50-60 years. Who can forget the famous 4-2-4 of Brazil in the 60's, or the diamond of Argentina in the 70's and 80's? If you managed to miss that, you probably weren't looking closely enough.
I guess not. I was too busy outside playing the game as our black and white 9" tv was unwatchable with a family of 7 around it.

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Post by black_dynamite »

All I have to say is WOW if this actually happens:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/st ... s1&cc=5901

What do you guys think?

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Post by Jimmydeicide »

I would love to see him every week in the EPL thats for sure.

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Post by JRod »

Jimmydeicide wrote:I would love to see him every week in the EPL thats for sure.
Is there enough coke and quality "working" girls for him though? :D
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Post by 10spro »

MACTEPsporta wrote:Formations have been a big part of football for the last 50-60 years. Who can forget the famous 4-2-4 of Brazil in the 60's, or the diamond of Argentina in the 70's and 80's? If you managed to miss that, you probably weren't looking closely enough.
Indeed, Holland of 74 and Argentina in 78 brought and played those formations to a T. That was the jogo bonito we all miss and enjoy watching.

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Post by Jimmydeicide »

JRod wrote:
Jimmydeicide wrote:I would love to see him every week in the EPL thats for sure.
Is there enough coke and quality "working" girls for him though? :D
Plenty of Coke and with his money im sure quality hookers.
Just tell him to buy a home next to Robbie Fowler.

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Post by fsquid »

Good to see the Getafe keeper get some tips from Mr. Robinson.

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Post by Macca00 »

JRod wrote:
Jimmydeicide wrote:I would love to see him every week in the EPL thats for sure.
Is there enough coke and quality "working" girls for him though? :D
Forget coke and whores, do they have good Orthodontists in Manchester?

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Post by fsquid »

Macca00 wrote:
JRod wrote:
Jimmydeicide wrote:I would love to see him every week in the EPL thats for sure.
Is there enough coke and quality "working" girls for him though? :D
Forget coke and whores, do they have good Orthodontists in Manchester?
Do they have any at all in England?

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Post by Jimmydeicide »

fsquid wrote:
Macca00 wrote:
JRod wrote: Is there enough coke and quality "working" girls for him though? :D
Forget coke and whores, do they have good Orthodontists in Manchester?
Do they have any at all in England?
Not while i was there lol.

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Post by davet010 »

Ronaldinho is past it - City have no need for prima donnas who only play when they can be arsed.

What we really need are the 2 refs from the Arsenal V Liverpool Champs League tie...we could play our coaching staff and pick up 3 points with that crew.

I'm almost tempted to root for Barcelona, but I wouldn't want to add to their endless capacity for self congratulation.
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."

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Post by fsquid »

I'll take him at Hillsborough!

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Post by davet010 »

Ronaldinho in League One - now there's a thought for the purist.

:wink:
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."

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Post by fsquid »

davet010 wrote:Ronaldinho in League One - now there's a thought for the purist.

:wink:
doomed us already? However, I'm sure Paul Sturrock would love to put the ink on our relegation papers Monday.

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Post by davet010 »

nah - to be honest I'd much prefer it if Leicester went down instead, as Ian Holloway really gets on my tits.
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."

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Post by fanatic »

In Toronto FC news (cricket sounds in the background)....

We actually signed a couple of pretty solid players this week. Laurent Robert (ex Newcastle guy - PK, any input?) and Guevara (former MLS mvp and new york star - Zeppo?). Also on the verge of signing former Spurs/Arsenal (love it) player Rohan Ricketts. Three great (in mls standards) midfielders if you ask me.

Zepp, Jared - you guys also season ticket holders? Been to games yet? TFC home opener isn't until next week.

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Post by fsquid »

Laurent Roberts kicks the ball hard and I mean fecking hard. Other than that, he's shite.

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