OT: Live Earth

[JackB1]

There is very little real, useful discussion that takes place here on social issues and I guess that's because it is a "sports gaming forum". The smarter folks stay out of it because they see how these discussions never turn into anything worthwhile. I keep thinking maybe things will change, but when you get replies like these, you realize that most of these folks want to ignore confronting these issues.....

I was backing out of this thread...but I've gotten pulled back in.

Jack,

If you think this is a place where "very little real, useful discussion" takes place, then a) stop starting these "useless" discussions or b) go post somewhere else, where your hard-hitting issue-confronting posts will be appreciated. I'm sure you can pop over to the Mensa forums in the meantime, where the smarter folks post.

In the meantime, let me tell you what I think. On many political/off-topic forums, the views tend to be homogenous. Liberals talk to liberals, conservatives talk to conservatives, etc. Here, on the off-topic posts, people from all views can spout there opinions. There will be disagreements, there will be sarcasm, and there will be people that express their opinion in one sentence. This is all a good thing. No, it's not a bunch of PhDs discussing theory...but again, you can find that somewhere else if you want.

Regardless, just because it's a sports gaming forum doesn't mean that there are a bunch of idiots posting on other stuff here. As long as people are somewhat respectful of one another, all opinions are fine by me, all across the spectrum.

Jared, PK, Jack, etc.
There are many smart, witty, thoughtful people that post here concerning these issues and that is what keeps me coming back, but there are just as many that add nothing to the discussions and just look for opportunities to insult, bash or pile on. It's the latter that Smurfy was referring to in his earlier comments. If you don't believe me, go back and look at any of these types of threads and count the total posts and then count the one's that had something useful to add. You will always find less of those than the other type.

I am not claiming to be the beacon of bi-partisanship or whatever you called me, but I started this thread just to see what folks thought about the performers in Live Earth and to bring up some good suggestions on helping the environment that I heard during the concerts and it turned into a Gore bashing thread. I didn't even mention Gore and to be honest and I don't care who was the driving force behind this concert, just that the message gets out that this issue is one that we, as a collective world, need to address.

If Bush or anyone else was behind this movement, I would be just as supportive. It should be about the issue itself, not about who started the ball rolling. I also find it hard to believe that Gore is investing all this time and effort behind this cause, just to put himself more in the public eye and to feed his ego, as some of you claim. But even if he is, that doesn't change all the findings that the majority of our scientists are reporting. When you look at all the facts, the evidence seems overwhelming that our planet is heading in irreversably bad direction.

I am certainly no expert, but a bunch of bands getting together accross the world to make some music, get the word out and try to start a positive movement certainly seems like a good thing to me.

[dbdynsty25]

Ha.

JackB, the intellectual...nothing says oxymoron, while emphasizing the moron, more than that statement.

Is this the same "smart" guy that needs advice on which pant leg to put on first? The same "smart" guy that needs to know which toothpaste to use each morning?

Comical...to the nth degree. I'm glad I had a good belly laugh to wake me up this evening...as the home run derby nearly put me to sleep for the night.

[JackB1]

I fully and truly believe that the environment should be last in a long line of things to give a s*** about and even further down the line of things that need to be addressed. Let's work on curing disease, ending poverty, living in peacetime, ending child abuse, lowering crime, stopping rape, stopping sexual molestation, murder, you name it.

So now you are relying on comedians to guide you on important issues such as global warming? Carlin (who I love as a comedian BTW) is so cynical on the world in general, his views on global warming are not surprising to me. To just believe that the "planet is so huge and indestructable" may certainly be comforting to some, but sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Also, that you say "I fully and truly believe that the environment should be last in a long line of things to give a s*** about" is something I couldn't disagree with more. You fail to see how our neglect towards the environment has a direct correlation with crime, poverty and most of the things you mentioned. If we respected the planet, we would respect each other more as human beings and if we only took what we needed from Mother Earth, something tells me we wouldn't be taking what didn't belong to us from each other.

[JackB1]

Ha.

JackB, the intellectual...nothing says oxymoron, while emphasizing the moron, more than that statement.

Is this the same "smart" guy that needs advice on which pant leg to put on first? The same "smart" guy that needs to know which toothpaste to use each morning?

Comical...to the nth degree. I'm glad I had a good belly laugh to wake me up this evening...as the home run derby nearly put me to sleep for the night.

Thanks for reinforcing my point Db. You never fail to add nothing to the conversation and only excel at hurling insults. Classic low self esteem profile.

[dbdynsty25]

Thanks for reinforcing my point Db. You never fail to add nothing to the conversation and only excel at hurling insults. Classic low self esteem profile.

Did you get permission to type that from you wife? She's gonna be piiiiiiiisssed if you didn't.

[Leebo33]

If we respected the planet, we would respect each other more as human beings and if we only took what we needed from Mother Earth, something tells me we wouldn't be taking what didn't belong to us from each other.

Yeah, there was no war or theft before the industrial revolution

Sorry for the one line sarcastic post

[greggsand]

I do agree with Jack on this one:
"If Bush or anyone else was behind this movement, I would be just as supportive. It should be about the issue itself, not about who started the ball rolling. I also find it hard to believe that Gore is investing all this time and effort behind this cause, just to put himself more in the public eye and to feed his ego, as some of you claim. But even if he is, that doesn't change all the findings that the majority of our scientists are reporting. When you look at all the facts, the evidence seems overwhelming that our planet is heading in irreversably bad direction. "

Hell, if the next Republican candidate actually believes in science over "hocus pocus & one-on-one talks with Jesus", I'd probably give him a long look. It's scary when the leader of the country admits he doesn't read newspapers. The environment will be a hot topic in the next election. It'll be interesting to see how christian-right tells the rep candidate how to handle it.

[Jared]

Ha.

JackB, the intellectual...nothing says oxymoron, while emphasizing the moron, more than that statement.

Is this the same "smart" guy that needs advice on which pant leg to put on first? The same "smart" guy that needs to know which toothpaste to use each morning?

Comical...to the nth degree. I'm glad I had a good belly laugh to wake me up this evening...as the home run derby nearly put me to sleep for the night.

Thanks for reinforcing my point Db. You never fail to add nothing to the conversation and only excel at hurling insults. Classic low self esteem profile.

Jack,

DB can be an ass. Hell, I've banned him once for it. However, he brings a hell of a lot more to these forums than just hurling insults.

And Mr. Genius, you have a Psych Ph.D. on top of your amazing political knowledge as well? You've now gotten into psychoanalysis? God...where do you find all the time to post here with all of your amazing edumacation.
[/sarcasm]

The rest of my response is in a PM. Though for the rest of the forum, let me make this clear:

Sarcasm in posts: OK.
One-liners as posts: OK.
Insults, within reason: OK.
Posting your opinions: OK.
Criticizing/taking someone to task for their opinions: OK.

[ProvoAnC]

Good show, but Gore can take it up the ass.

Best part of this thread

and this...I don't even no what it means, but i knows it be funnie

Did you get permission to type that from you wife? She's gonna be piiiiiiiisssed if you didn't.

I don't post much here, but f***in-a clean the sand out of your p***y

love,
your resident door kicking knuckle-dragger

[DivotMaker]

They do the same thing with Michael Moore. There are people that will pick apart all the "facts" in his films, rather than looking at the overall big picture message he is trying to get accross.

When a filmmaker DELIBERATELY creates a film telling only HALF the story and editing out pieces from actual footage used that would not support his "overall big picture message", then people will pick it apart as any OBJECTIVE person would.

The smarter folks stay out of it because they see how these discussions never turn into anything worthwhile.

The smarter folks stay out of it? Whoa....there are some pretty damn sharp folks that have commented in this thread, so I don't know where you get off with comments like that.

"f*** off jack!!!! geez."

"I only flush the toilet once a week,whether it needs it or not."

"Hope you're walking your 360 back to wherever you bought it."

"Good show, but Gore can take it up the ass."

"I agree with George Carlin when it comes to the environment."

Try not to confuse "smart" with "sarcasm".....

[XXXIV]

Though for the rest of the forum, let me make this clear:

Sarcasm in posts: OK.
One-liners as posts: OK.
Insults, within reason: OK.
Posting your opinions: OK.
Criticizing/taking someone to task for their opinions: OK.

Stands and applauds...

[TheHiddenTrack]

1) There is a scientific consensus that man made global warming is happening.

2) Without changes this will more than likely become a problem to humans-animals in the future. Although the exact effects are debatable.

The science is complicated and to become informed it takes more effort than what most are willing to put in.

Even if Al Gore is a hypocrite, he is raising awareness for an issue that is based upon facts. And while it's true that most of the public will come to conclusions before researching and probably create their opinion on what they see on a bumper-sticker, that's not changing. So he put out a movie, he's doing events like this in order to raise awareness to those people.

Whether you like him or not, his opinion is based upon solid scientific evidence and whether the public understands this or not it's a good thing if they are persuaded to believe something that is a reality.

Sure, I would love it if Carl Sagan was still alive and he was the one who made the movie but their aren't many scientists who have the ability to make a movie and organize something that will put important science into the consciousness of the public.

And on that note, I invite everyone to watch the classic: Cosmos.

And everyone to read: The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. Both done by Carl Sagan.

And PK, I enjoy all of your rants even if I think you're off base at times. They are always passionate and entertaining.

[wco81]

[If global warming is a serious problem, are humans the cause?

If global warming is a serious problem, does it matter if humans are the cause?

Should we pump greenhouse gases like there's no tomorrow, as if it makes no difference either way?

Most of the active scientists in the field have said the probablity is over 90% that humans have contributed to the problem. I forget the exact wording but it was as definite as scientists get, since they're inclined to issue caveats.

Only people who are disputing it are scientists on the periphery either funded directly by the energy industry or indirectly through think tanks.

[greggsand]

Hidden Track comes from out of the shadows to lay some smackdown! Nice job spiderman.

I had no idea the dsp was so conservative heavy - ya think ya know somebody. To each his own....

I agree with Hidden on PK, no idea where he's coming from, but it's usually entertaining.

[wco81]

My understanding is that Gore has been giving his slide shows since at least 2000. For all the hate he draws, as demonstrated in this thread, he must be able to generate a lot of media attention for whatever reason.

Documentaries as a rule don't draw a lot of viewers in. Maybe Gore's movie and this concert will impart some useful info. to some people. I've never watched any of these benefit concerts so I don't know if they've made any difference in the past and yet, they keep having them.

Or maybe, just being Gore, people will shut themselves off to the issue and just attack the messenger.

I can't stand Bono or Oprah or most of these acts. You know none of them are going to curb their lifestyles one bit -- jetting around the world, burning up energy in their huge mansions, etc.

These artists and Gore are probably doing this at least in part to make themselves appear important.

But what kind of rich celebrities do you prefer, those who at least pretend to do good or those who just compare whose Gulfstream or yacht is bigger?

Or is Paris Hilton more preferable to Gore and all these do-gooders?

[ScoopBrady]

So now you are relying on comedians to guide you on important issues such as global warming? Carlin (who I love as a comedian BTW) is so cynical on the world in general, his views on global warming are not surprising to me. To just believe that the "planet is so huge and indestructable" may certainly be comforting to some, but sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Did I say I rely on comedians to guide me on important issues? I guess that means that you rely on musicians to guide you? Hell, it seems like you can't even make a simple decision without consulting the boards and you accuse me of seeking guidance elsewhere? Too funny.

Also, that you say "I fully and truly believe that the environment should be last in a long line of things to give a s*** about" is something I couldn't disagree with more. You fail to see how our neglect towards the environment has a direct correlation with crime, poverty and most of the things you mentioned. If we respected the planet, we would respect each other more as human beings and if we only took what we needed from Mother Earth, something tells me we wouldn't be taking what didn't belong to us from each other.

I'm sorry but this has got to be the dumbest thing I've read in a long time. How we treat the planet has no correlation with how we treat each other. We've treated each other like s*** way before we started to mess with the environment. If you truly believe this than no wonder you can't tie your shoe without starting a thread.

Didn't you say you were through with these types of thread before? Maybe you should go with your gut every once-in-a-while. It seems to know a thing or two.

[Jimmydeicide]

4 pages and still not getting anywhere. Ah the quality of debate on the Internet...

Perhaps people can all agree that everyone and their mom is a hypocrite and this thread can maybe turn into an intelligent discussion on global warming?

The two first questions in my mind are:

1) Is global warming a serious problem?
2) If it is a serious problem, what are best ways to address the problem?

Whether any person on the planet is a hypocrite has absolutely no logical bearing on the answer to question 1).

But feel free to waste forum space...

Smurfy...I agree with you completely and that is the reason why most people here stick to posts that aren't too opinionated. People would rather shoot down and criticise something or someone, than acknowledge that there is a problem. It's much easier to find one small issue that they can discredit and then they they feel justified in dismissing the whole topic completely. They do the same thing with Michael Moore. There are people that will pick apart all the "facts" in his films, rather than looking at the overall big picture message he is trying to get accross.
People that don't like Al Gore will point out how he flies jets all over the world and call him a hipocrit and therefore this whole global warming thing must be false. That's why the title to his movie is so appropriate..."An Inconvenient Truth". It's much more convenient to dismiss something rather than comtemplate for a minute that even if 10% of what he says is true, it's still way too much.

There is very little real, useful discussion that takes place here on social issues and I guess that's because it is a "sports gaming forum". The smarter folks stay out of it because they see how these discussions never turn into anything worthwhile. I keep thinking maybe things will change, but when you get replies like these, you realize that most of these folks want to ignore confronting these issues.....

"f*** off jack!!!! geez."

"I only flush the toilet once a week,whether it needs it or not."

"Hope you're walking your 360 back to wherever you bought it."

"Good show, but Gore can take it up the ass."

"I agree with George Carlin when it comes to the environment."

Wait , was i supposed to confront the issue ? That i didnt know, i just chose to concentrate my efforts in other places i guess.

Hey on a side note , its f***in hot in Cali lately.

[Jackdog]

Also, that you say "I fully and truly believe that the environment should be last in a long line of things to give a s*** about" is something I couldn't disagree with more. You fail to see how our neglect towards the environment has a direct correlation with crime, poverty and most of the things you mentioned. If we respected the planet, we would respect each other more as human beings and if we only took what we needed from Mother Earth, something tells me we wouldn't be taking what didn't belong to us from each other.

The slave ships that brought my folks here were "Green Friendly" I believe. And if my dumbass can recall,the tribes in Africa that sold those slaves weren't driving around in Escalades rounding them up.

Come to think of it ,maybe the heat instead of his race was the reason my father was beaten and hospitlized for 2 months the day he got back from fighting in WWII. Mississippi in Febuary can be a sauna. I am calling my pop today and schooling him up on his beatdown. Thanks Jack!!

Jack's comment is my pick for "Hippie post of the year",or "Most nieve".

[pk500]

My understanding is that Gore has been giving his slide shows since at least 2000. For all the hate he draws, as demonstrated in this thread, he must be able to generate a lot of media attention for whatever reason.

Hmm. Maybe because the man was Vice President of the United States? Just a guess.

Documentaries as a rule don't draw a lot of viewers in. Maybe Gore's movie and this concert will impart some useful info. to some people. I've never watched any of these benefit concerts so I don't know if they've made any difference in the past and yet, they keep having them.

Or maybe, just being Gore, people will shut themselves off to the issue and just attack the messenger.

There's no question that global warming is an issue. I'm not sticking my head in the sand and saying it's not happening. But when Al Gore is the leader of the charge, well, let's just say that his impassioned pleas for saving the Earth are a bit hollow considering his personal energy use and considering that he's an unemployed politician.

Bottom line: I trust Al Gore and his intentions about as much as I trust a guy wearing a plaid sport coat trying to sell a lot full of Yugos and AMC Pacers. With this issue, my problem is not so much the message as it the Messenger in Chief. He's a phony who doesn't walk the walk.

Of course, it would be more hilarious if George Bush, Mr. Kyoto himself, led the charge on global warming.

I can't stand Bono or Oprah or most of these acts. You know none of them are going to curb their lifestyles one bit -- jetting around the world, burning up energy in their huge mansions, etc.

Al Gore is in the same category, man. But he's let off the hook because he buys "carbon credits.":roll:

These artists and Gore are probably doing this at least in part to make themselves appear important.

Absolutely. When you've had the political profile as VP like Gore, it's pretty hard to let go of that drug of power and influence.

But what kind of rich celebrities do you prefer, those who at least pretend to do good or those who just compare whose Gulfstream or yacht is bigger?

Well, the attempts by Gore and others are noble. But as you said, so few of them walk the walk. So there's almost a bizarre honesty about those stars who practice conspicuous consumption and don't give a f*ck.

That said, I have come to respect Angelina Jolie. She has gone in less than a decade from Billy Bob's sex slave freak to someone who is really trying to make a difference for sub-Saharan Africa. She's doing more than just appearing on a few telethons. She's meeting with heads of state, traveling to these regions and meeting with their people.

Plus I feel much more sympathetic to the plight of those folks, especially the children, than I do Mother Earth. Carlin is right -- we're not going to kill this planet in our lifetime or our great-great-great-great grandchildren's lifetime. But those people -- especially children -- are dying in Darfur and sub-Saharan Africa by the minute.

Subjective support of charity? Of course. But I think the needs in sub-Saharan Africa are MUCH greater than those of trying to stop greenhouse gases, and I applaud Jolie for trying to help and getting boots on the ground regularly to do it.

Take care,
PK

[Jared]

But when Al Gore is the leader of the charge, well, let's just say that his impassioned pleas for saving the Earth are a bit hollow considering his personal energy use and considering that he's an unemployed politician.

Maybe I should ask this question a little differently...and this is for everyone, including PK (as I seem to be missing something...)

Considering that Gore's house uses the average amount of electricity per square foot as a house in his area (and that most of that is from renewable resources), then is Gore being a "hypocrite", essentially, because he has a big house?

[Leebo33]

Considering that Gore's house uses the average amount of electricity per square foot as a house in his area (and that most of that is from renewable resources), then is Gore being a "hypocrite", essentially, because he has a big house?

Jared,

Unless Gore has a special "renewable" energy line to his house, which I am unaware of, please stop saying that Gore is using electricity from "renewable sources." Gore is using the same electricity as anyone else he's just paying a little more for it, which is a luxury of being rich as is the luxury of buying tax deductible "carbon credits." If Gore stopped paying more the electric company would still produce the same amount of electricity from these sources.

Two things:

1. I've been hearing about energy conservation and "global warming" since I was a kid. Gore is well aware that building a huge mansion would increase his carbon footprint. Do I care? No, but I'm not asking my neighbors to bike to pickup groceries either.

2. Is "average" going to cut it if the problems are as bad as Gore claims?

[Jared]

Unless Gore has a special "renewable" energy line to his house, which I am unaware of, please stop saying that Gore is using electricity from "renewable sources." Gore is using the same electricity as anyone else he's just paying a little more for it, which is a luxury of being rich as is the luxury of buying tax deductible "carbon credits." If Gore stopped paying more the electric company would still produce the same amount of electricity from these sources.

True...like I think you (or someone else said before) electrons are electrons, and that energy will still be used. But Gore is purchasing the energy from these green companies. If Gore (and others) don't pay a premium for green energy (since it's more expensive), there won't be a demand for it and companies won't have incentive to build. So the individual electrons may be from other non-green sources, but he's paying green companies, and helping them make a profit (for example, if no one is paying the premium for green energy, those companies will take a hit and it'll discourage similar projects or sink current green energy projects).

1. I've been hearing about energy conservation and "global warming" since I was a kid. Gore is well aware that building a huge mansion would increase his carbon footprint. Do I care? No, but I'm not asking my neighbors to bike to pickup groceries either.

I don't think he built the mansion...but I have no idea when he bought it. And here is where I could be completely wrong...but I don't think Gore is asking people to bike to pick up groceries. One of the tips on the Inconvenient Truth website is "Reduce the number of miles you drive by walking, biking, carpooling or taking mass transit <b>wherever possible</b>" (bold mine). I think the last point is the important point. Most people live outside of urban centers, so they can't bike/walk to work/shop. They have no choice but to drive, and that's fine. From what I can gather, Gore isn't asking those people to bike or whatever...but rather, he is asking those that can use public transport and walking to do so.

Same thing with carbon credits...the poor and middle class can't afford carbon credits, and it's stupid to try to push them to do that. I don't see any evidence of Gore doing that (though again, I could be wrong). However, if you're rich, and your job involves lots of travel (like Gore), and your carbon footprint is higher than the average person, then things like carbon credits are a good idea (again, assuming that they work).

2. Is "average" going to cut it if the problems are as bad as Gore claims?

Well, I disagree in that his carbon-energy purchasing is well-below average (considering that he is paying for green energy...and yes, you and others disagree about this, but I think it's an effective way to support carbon-neutral companies).

[JackB1]

And PK, I enjoy all of your rants even if I think you're off base at times. They are always passionate and entertaining.

That he is........that he is

[JackB1]

DB can be an ass. Hell, I've banned him once for it. However, he brings a hell of a lot more to these forums than just hurling insults.

I agree, he can bring useful posts to this forum once in a while, but his child-like derogatory comments show his true colors time and time again.
I will go back to what is the best way to deal with him...ignore.

[Spooky]

There is very little real, useful discussion that takes place here on social issues and I guess that's because it is a "sports gaming forum". The smarter folks stay out of it because they see how these discussions never turn into anything worthwhile. I keep thinking maybe things will change, but when you get replies like these, you realize that most of these folks want to ignore confronting these issues.....

Well, I had better post in this thread as to not be confused with one of the "smarter" DSP posters.