Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Dave »

Anyone else jump into the 1987 NASCAR Cup car in iRacing? I'll be promoted to a C license with the new season and after trying to drive the car, I might try something else first to get a little buffer for my Safety Rating before jumping in to the NASCAR Legends series.

Then again, trying it (very unsuccessfully) at Lime Rock in one of the goofy week 13 races might not be representative of the actual oval series, but that thing is a handful!
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Rodster »

pk500 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:26 pm
Perhaps Codemasters is replacing GRID with a more simcade-ish Project Cars 3 since the Codies bought Slightly Mad Studios, the developers of the PCars series?
If you read this article PK. According to SMS/CM that the game is more of a compliment to PCR2 and why they wanted to take PCR3 in a different direction. "It's an attempt to present a more open-armed, accessible racing game for all - and a side of the game that's additive to the sprawling comprehensiveness of Project Cars 2 rather than a replacement for it."

Now whether you buy into the reasoning is another matter. I'm not buying into it because you already have simcade games such as Grid 2, Grid Autosport and I'm not even including the most recent Grid game. So what does this game offer, that the previous two Grid games don't? I'm not seeing it. In fact Grid Autosport was presented to be more sim and less arcade.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020 ... -direction

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

pk500 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am
Sorry, can't share the enthusiasm for GRID. I've downloaded the trial twice and was not moved to even think of a purchase, as Forza Horizon scratches the simcade itch with FAR more depth and fun. Glad you cats are enjoying it.
After reading your post I decided to go with the trial version once more. I'm glad I did... there's not a lot you can do with the force feedback and steering wheel response. Even though what it defaults to is closer to a good setting for my tastes than I would have imagined, not being able to get the feel and more sensitive steering response I wanted was pretty close to a show-stopper. I'd also forgotten how prone the AI cars are to flat out ramming you in this game and the overstated, bone-jarring collisions had me shell shocked inside of 15 minutes.

One thing I had forgotten is how beautiful the graphics are and fluid the animation is, but for racing fun, I find GRID Autosport to be more to my liking. Thanks for saving me 40 quatloos Paul 8)

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Rodster wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:30 am
If you read this article PK. According to SMS/CM that the game is more of a compliment to PCR2 and why they wanted to take PCR3 in a different direction. "It's an attempt to present a more open-armed, accessible racing game for all - and a side of the game that's additive to the sprawling comprehensiveness of Project Cars 2 rather than a replacement for it."
Thanks, Rod. The Project Cars series would be plenty accessible for consoles if Slightly Mad spent more time optimizing the control for controllers instead of wheels. Turn 10 does it with Forza, and Codemasters does it with F1. It can be done.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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J_Cauthen wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:42 pm
After reading your post I decided to go with the trial version once more. I'm glad I did... there's not a lot you can do with the force feedback and steering wheel response. Even though what it defaults to is closer to a good setting for my tastes than I would have imagined, not being able to get the feel and more sensitive steering response I wanted was pretty close to a show-stopper. I'd also forgotten how prone the AI cars are to flat out ramming you in this game and the overstated, bone-jarring collisions had me shell shocked inside of 15 minutes.

One thing I had forgotten is how beautiful the graphics are and fluid the animation is, but for racing fun, I find GRID Autosport to be more to my liking. Thanks for saving me 40 quatloos Paul 8)
That's one thing I'm thankful to Fanatec for--with their Podium DD series, you can just tweak absolutely everything on the wheelbase itself. Even if a game sucks with FF support, I can usually dial it to a good level on the hardware itself.

Stuff is getting so advanced nowadays. I actually liked what I tried of Grid. May need to try it again if I could pry myself away from iRacing.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

TCrouch wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:53 pm
That's one thing I'm thankful to Fanatec for--with their Podium DD series, you can just tweak absolutely everything on the wheelbase itself. Even if a game sucks with FF support, I can usually dial it to a good level on the hardware itself.

Stuff is getting so advanced nowadays. I actually liked what I tried of Grid. May need to try it again if I could pry myself away from iRacing.
I've not dared to look into the Podium DD series for fear I couldn't go back to my Thrustmaster TX, which has been the best and most reliable wheel I've ever owned. It would certainly be a viable solution to GRID's steering limitations. Can you get lost in the fiddling with that wheel though, trying to find the perfect mix?

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

Not unless it's a new game. I literally have one profile I use for all cars in iRacing, and I just adjust strength in-sim based on whether it's dirt, oval, road, or a car strength difference. Then save controls for that car and it's like that moving forward.

In other sims, sometimes I have multiple profiles, but that's where Fanalab helps. Click profile, click Load. No fiddling.

Any time you're setting something up for the FIRST time, though, it requires some fiddling. But there are so many settings from strength to dampening to interpolation to chattering the wheel on lockup. It really comes down to a few tweaks based on the game to really get to a close place, and then maybe adjust on the wheel while paused if I notice something in a session that I didn't like.

With a Direct Drive, though...everything is different. It's almost a self-driving wheel. Start to lose the rear end, just let go and it rights itself almost instantly. The flip side is I actually have to cross my arms in front of me if I'm about to hit a wall. If I'm using my formula rim, it outputs the same amount of force as a 1960s race car with no power steering. It could easily break my hand or snap my forearm in half if I had my arm reached through the rim fiddling with stuff and it jerked on me.

So that small (immersive) detail aside, it's pretty much a fire-and-forget setup. I never tinker with it past the initial few moments, and then it feels so real that I can barely remember I'm in a sim most of the time.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

TCrouch wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:27 pm
Not unless it's a new game. I literally have one profile I use for all cars in iRacing, and I just adjust strength in-sim based on whether it's dirt, oval, road, or a car strength difference. Then save controls for that car and it's like that moving forward.

In other sims, sometimes I have multiple profiles, but that's where Fanalab helps. Click profile, click Load. No fiddling.
You're making this sound way to appealing Terry! How would this work with something like PCARS 2 on my XBox One X, where I've got a different force feedback profile for every car, or so it seems?

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by TCrouch »

Don't know, I've never needed to do that. But I guess you could just save the profiles in Fanalab and load them as necessary.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

XBox owners: MotoGP 20 is listed in the Free Play Days section of the store. No idea if it's one of those permanent offers of an hour-long trial or if it's only for this weekend. Not a huge download - 17.66 GB is what it's showing as for me.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Thanks for the tip, Adam. I'll download with zero expectations, as the only difference between Milestone's MotoGP games and a bucket of sh*t is the bucket.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Rodster »

Just a heads up for any who has a Nintendo Switch. Motorsport Manager is on sale for 50% off. I paid $7.49 and it's kind of like Football Manager. It gets pretty in-depth although the PC version is slightly different in that you have practice sessions whereas the Switch version doesn't. But on the value side you get all the DLC. With the Steam version, the DLC is extra and the game is around $59 with everything included.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Rodster »

"Dirt 5 feels more like a new MotorStorm than a new Dirt - and that's okay"

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020 ... thats-okay

If this is true, count me interested. The entire Motorstorm series to this day is one of my favorite arcade racing games from the PS3 era. The first one in the series, I still play to this day. It had attitude and a Mad Max racing convention sort of vibe. It had the best rubber band AI in any racing game I have ever played and the game made no bones/excuses about it and that's what made Motorstorm even more fun. I can't say if Dirt 5 will use rubber band AI but it would be a nice departure for Dirt 5 because the series started to fall in the middle of what it was trying to be, especially that was a big criticism of Dirt 4. Then Dirt Rally came out and that became the serious Rally sim.

So I'm okay with Dirt 5 going totally arcade and the developer behind the Motorstorm studio is the same one who did Driveclub and is responsible for Dirt 5.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Agree, Rod. I have no problem with DIRT 5 being the spiritual successor to Rallisport Challenge or even Sega Rally. Codemasters should focus on realism and the sim crowd with the DIRT Rally franchise and go over the top with ridiculous arcade fun with the DIRT series.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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pk500 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:24 am
Agree, Rod. I have no problem with DIRT 5 being the spiritual successor to Rallisport Challenge or even Sega Rally. Codemasters should focus on realism and the sim crowd with the DIRT Rally franchise and go over the top with ridiculous arcade fun with the DIRT series.
I think Dirt 5 will be more over the top than either of those two and both of those games you mentioned were great. From the wording of the article Dirt 5 sounds like it will be closer to Motorstorm Apocalypse :D

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

GRID is on sale this week for $10 at the Microsoft Store. Many racing game aficionados who I respect praise this game as fun and said the demo -- which I thought SUCKED -- is not indicative of the retail game.

So, petrolheads, of what previous racing game or franchise does the retail version of GRID remind you? Is this Project Gotham? Is it TOCA? Is it Ridge Racer?

I'm tempted to hit the Buy button, but I want to get a better gist of what I may purchase. Yeah, I know it's only $10, but I'm tighter than two coats of paint.

Thanks!
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by DChaps »

Assetto Corsa Competizione Console Version Out - Buyer Beware

From Race Department Forums:
Multiple problems being reported on Xbox. The 8 reviews currently on the Xbox Store page are all rated 1 star (the lowest possible) with descriptions of unplayable framerate, wheels (TX & Fanatec) not being detected (or no steering/braking but only buttons working). The headlights at night so dim driving becomes almost impossible. Some are encountering the game crashing when selecting any car other than the Lambo.

Giving away 'free' pre-order DLC that won't be available until...soon...was another stunt as the delay wasn't mentioned anywhere.

Another shocking console launch from 505 games, not so much Kunos other than reputation, as apparently the port was made by a company called d3t ltd.

505/Kunos should have waited for the next-gen consoles and delivered a great experience, but once again it looks like cash is king and outweighs delivering a good product.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

pk500 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:27 pm
GRID is on sale this week for $10 at the Microsoft Store. Many racing game aficionados who I respect praise this game as fun and said the demo -- which I thought SUCKED -- is not indicative of the retail game.

So, petrolheads, of what previous racing game or franchise does the retail version of GRID remind you? Is this Project Gotham? Is it TOCA? Is it Ridge Racer?

I'm tempted to hit the Buy button, but I want to get a better gist of what I may purchase. Yeah, I know it's only $10, but I'm tighter than two coats of paint.

Thanks!
I tried it again when they had the free play weekend. It looks fantastic, but it just feels like it's too hellbent on heavy contact for my tastes. If I want want contact of the extent that seems to be the norm in GRID, I'll play Wreckfest, where I know it's expected. I only played it maybe an hour during that free play weekend before I'd had enough... I think I was shell shocked from the jarring and loud contact effects as much as anything.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by J_Cauthen »

DChaps wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:25 pm
Assetto Corsa Competizione Console Version Out - Buyer Beware

From Race Department Forums:
Multiple problems being reported on Xbox. The 8 reviews currently on the Xbox Store page are all rated 1 star (the lowest possible) with descriptions of unplayable framerate, wheels (TX & Fanatec) not being detected (or no steering/braking but only buttons working). The headlights at night so dim driving becomes almost impossible. Some are encountering the game crashing when selecting any car other than the Lambo.

Giving away 'free' pre-order DLC that won't be available until...soon...was another stunt as the delay wasn't mentioned anywhere.

Another shocking console launch from 505 games, not so much Kunos other than reputation, as apparently the port was made by a company called d3t ltd.

505/Kunos should have waited for the next-gen consoles and delivered a great experience, but once again it looks like cash is king and outweighs delivering a good product.
Even before I read the news about it not supported my Thrustmaster TX, I read that it was locked at 30 FPS, even on the XBox One X. That had already turned me off to it. NASCAR HEAT 4 is the last 30 FPS racing game I'll ever buy. I suspect they'll be able to patch the wheel support, as I'm sure they didn't plan to support them. I don't see them adding support for a 60 FPS option, so this one's a pass for me.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Thanks for the feedback, John. Any other chatter about GRID is welcome!
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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pk500 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:42 pm
Thanks for the feedback, John. Any other chatter about GRID is welcome!
It's GRID but for $10 i've spent worse. I got the Ultimate Edition for $15 during the last sale and I don't feel cheated. This GRID is pretty similar to GRID Autosport.

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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by pk500 »

Thanks, Rod.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

PK,

It's a GRID Greatest Hits.

There are tracks and cars from the first game, so you can run muscle cars over the jumps of San Francisco again if you wish. The handling model is tighter than that game, more akin to GRID Autosport, whose brilliant fictional Autosport Speedway is back here, renamed Crescent Valley. There's nothing at all from GRID 2, which is probably for the best.

(Not strictly true. One of the AI drivers is Patrick Callahan Jr. There's a James Randall Jr too, for the ToCA Race Driver devotees. Little callbacks for the series regulars, ultimately meaning nothing at all but appreciated by me all the same.)

I did not enjoy the demo, partly because I felt like the cars had assists on and partly because I treated the control inputs like on/off switches. I can't say it's unrepresentative of the retail game - it quite literally is the retail game - but it transformed for me with assists off and slightly more sensible driving.

It's not realism's last stand by any means but I made a Driver: San Francisco comparison a page or so ago that I would stand by. You can slam most of the cars around, all locked brakes and smoking tyres, and you'll probably have a fair amount of success. You'll go faster, and enjoy it more, if you dial it back a tiny bit, brake a bit more sensibly and have a little lift through that quick kink that you're sure would be flat if you could just stop sliding. It's not a physics model of unlimited depth by any means, but there's some there to be found should you wish.

AI will defend position, will attack at the first sign of a gap and will usually condense into one big pile if a course starts with a hairpin. I don't find them as crashy as John did - usually I crash with them because they wanted space and I didn't want to give it, or because I tried to pass them from 500 yards away and they turned in. They do sometimes want more room than I can physically give them, though, and I did have one basically decline to brake for Druids at Brands Hatch until he'd hit me, but it was for the lead on the final lap and I'd upset him earlier in the race. I didn't mind it. I can see how someone else might.

I got the Ultimate Edition when it was last on sale for a couple of quid more than the current price. I don't regret it and I'm still playing it. At full price I would have wanted a few more locations and perhaps more pronounced differences between cars. It's as good and as refined as GRID has ever been. It is, however, very much GRID.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by GB_Simo »

While I'm here, the free play on MotoGP 20 must have been a weekend-only thing. I got a few races in on Sunday, then on Monday I couldn't open the game.

Back in 1991, a young lad aged 6 was placed upon a bicycle in the Teesside Retail Park branch of Toys R Us. With hindsight, it'd seem his mother was trying to figure out the right size of bike for her son. For that purpose, it mattered not a bit that the bike in question was bright pink and had the Barbie logo painted on it.

The young 'un set off on a reconnaissance lap of the bike section from a standing start. Pedal to the end of the aisle, double back down the adjacent aisle, then back to the start in one big rectangle. Nice and easy. No brakes required just yet, as the little lad was having a bit of trouble getting the pedals going fast enough to warrant it. Lap 2, however, would require a squeeze of the brake lever from a rolling start. The young lad, blissfully unaware of this, did not squeeze the lever. Dead ahead, in a delicious twist, a beautiful sale display of Sindy dolls.

My friends, they did not see me coming. I haven't ridden a bike since being extricated from the unholy mess I'd made by my Mam, my Granda and a passing staff member who'd clearly never seen a boy on a Barbie bike targeting the enemy before, so what do I know about MotoGP 20?

I managed one dry race, one wet race and a couple of historic challenges. I set the AI to 80% and qualified last at Phillip Island. I finished there too, but set fastest lap towards the end. I didn't feel a massive impact on grip through tyre wear but clearly, I wasn't going quickly enough at the start to judge it properly. I also fell through the game world trying to enter the pits in qualifying, though the game brought me back quickly enough.

From there I took pole in the dry at Misano and raced to 5th on a wet track. No rain in the race, but I didn't notice the track getting drier. The difference between my dry quali lap and best wet race lap was just under 4 seconds, so not a lot of change. (Note: I did an historic challenge on a Rothmans Honda in the wet and couldn't beat the 40% AI, so I think the modern electronics are hiding a lot of issues with my style...) AI riders were well behaved in general but at the start, it felt like there was a line they wanted to take and if I happened to be there already, that was unfortunate for me.

Braking distances seem sensible but I've already given you all the context you need when judging the merits of that statement, I saw no issues running in High Performance mode on XB1X, and I didn't do any career or junior class riding.

The game is fine. I quite enjoyed it. If I see it for £20 I might get it. It's currently discounted to £34.99 on Live and that's too much for me.
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Re: Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Post by Zlax45 »

GB_Simo wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:25 pm
While I'm here, the free play on MotoGP 20 must have been a weekend-only thing. I got a few races in on Sunday, then on Monday I couldn't open the game.

Back in 1991, a young lad aged 6 was placed upon a bicycle in the Teesside Retail Park branch of Toys R Us. With hindsight, it'd seem his mother was trying to figure out the right size of bike for her son. For that purpose, it mattered not a bit that the bike in question was bright pink and had the Barbie logo painted on it.

The young 'un set off on a reconnaissance lap of the bike section from a standing start. Pedal to the end of the aisle, double back down the adjacent aisle, then back to the start in one big rectangle. Nice and easy. No brakes required just yet, as the little lad was having a bit of trouble getting the pedals going fast enough to warrant it. Lap 2, however, would require a squeeze of the brake lever from a rolling start. The young lad, blissfully unaware of this, did not squeeze the lever. Dead ahead, in a delicious twist, a beautiful sale display of Sindy dolls.

My friends, they did not see me coming. I haven't ridden a bike since being extricated from the unholy mess I'd made by my Mam, my Granda and a passing staff member who'd clearly never seen a boy on a Barbie bike targeting the enemy before, so what do I know about MotoGP 20?

I managed one dry race, one wet race and a couple of historic challenges. I set the AI to 80% and qualified last at Phillip Island. I finished there too, but set fastest lap towards the end. I didn't feel a massive impact on grip through tyre wear but clearly, I wasn't going quickly enough at the start to judge it properly. I also fell through the game world trying to enter the pits in qualifying, though the game brought me back quickly enough.

From there I took pole in the dry at Misano and raced to 5th on a wet track. No rain in the race, but I didn't notice the track getting drier. The difference between my dry quali lap and best wet race lap was just under 4 seconds, so not a lot of change. (Note: I did an historic challenge on a Rothmans Honda in the wet and couldn't beat the 40% AI, so I think the modern electronics are hiding a lot of issues with my style...) AI riders were well behaved in general but at the start, it felt like there was a line they wanted to take and if I happened to be there already, that was unfortunate for me.

Braking distances seem sensible but I've already given you all the context you need when judging the merits of that statement, I saw no issues running in High Performance mode on XB1X, and I didn't do any career or junior class riding.

The game is fine. I quite enjoyed it. If I see it for £20 I might get it. It's currently discounted to £34.99 on Live and that's too much for me.
I played it over the weekend during the Free Play weekend and ran one race where I finished last and couldn't get around the track without going off so it quickly got deleted.
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