OT: Michael Vick & Dogfighting

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:16 am

What do you all think about this situation?

If u want today's story go to:
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sport ... html?imw=Y

I think it's horrible that anyone can get their jollies watching 2 dogs rip each other apart until one is dead or so beat up that it can't continue. This informant that is outing Vick has been deemed "verreliable" by the police for tips he has given them in the past. Vick needs to be made an example, so that the other athletes that are also involved in this will stop it. Yes, there is no actual proof tieing Vick to the dogfights, but he owns the house and has to be responsible for what is going on there. I am just sickened by this story being an Atlanta Falcon fan, but the team needs to do what's right here and forget about just winning footbal games for now.
Vick is an idiot who can't stay out of trouble. Cut the ties now and move on.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon May 28, 2007 12:19 pm

All that money and fame and still an idiot.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:52 pm

nobody else has an opinion on this? 72 views and 1 reply???

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:08 pm

JackB1 wrote:nobody else has an opinion on this? 72 views and 1 reply???

Seems pretty obvious....If its true...He is a pathetic human being.

Maybe people are waiting to be sure?

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:31 pm

Maybe he will learn a lesson and end all this nonsense. Him and his brother seem to be involved in a lot of weird things.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon May 28, 2007 10:11 pm

I think he's a f'n prick. There was some interview with him in the past week as he's walking in or out of some place, and his attitude is just beyond ridiculous. Says something to the fact that "People are still going to watch me no matter what happens. I'm Michael Vick. I win football games."

Who the f cares? You're involved in something degrading and dispicable in my opinion. How anyone could still be a fan of his is beyond me. Yes, we need to wait until the evidence and charges are brought against him, but you can't tell me he wasn't involved when they find 60 something dogs on his premises. Oh, that's right. He doesn't live there. It was a family friend. What a class act.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon May 28, 2007 10:38 pm

"I don't know if he was fighting dogs or not, but it's his property and it's his dog. If that's what he wants to do, do it."

- Clinton Portis

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Tue May 29, 2007 7:40 am

he's a f***in dink.

ron f***in mexico...

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:27 am

He's such an asshole, he's like a character from a bad sports movie.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:43 am

I have mixed feelings about this case. Not at all about dog fighting, or really about Vick, but about the way ESPN has gone for this story.

It is not like ESPN is above hyping a story. Just ask Ohio State fans about the whole hoopla surrounding Maurice Clarett. How much of what ESPN suggested about Ohio State turned out to be true? It is a win-win situation for ESPN. If more stuff comes out, ESPN can say "We told you so" and if it turns out that there is a lack of evidence and just a lot of heresay, ESPN can just say "Mike who?" and move on to the next big story.

However, while I don't agree with the Cowboy's Jerry Jones about much, I agree that the QB should be held to a different standard because of the position he has on the team. The QB is the face of the team; a leader by default. All of these incidents - the Ron Mexico thing, the photo of Vick with the blunt/cigar, the secret compartment in the water bottle, the middle finger episode and now the dog fighting allegations, just leave me with the impression that this guy is not focused on doing his job. Morality aside, he is just not the answer at QB for the Atlanta Falcons.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:49 am

Vick is an idiot, no doubt. But I find it pretty ironic that the media and many fans are treating dogfighting as if it was gang-raping of a woman or first-degree murder.

What's even more ironic is that ESPN.com, the leader of the Vick persecution or prosecution (take your pick), has just devoted a new section of its Web site to mixed martial arts. It's OK for humans to beat the living sh*t out of each other in a sport in which hurting the other guy to the point of submission and injury is the object, but throw canines in "the octagon" doing the same thing, and it's a felony right up there with child porn?

Meanwhile, how many NFL players have multiple children out of wedlock or sleep around on their wives during every away game? I guess that's OK as long as that player doesn't let pit bulls rip the sh*t out of each other.

This story is borderline irrelevant to me, and I dig the NFL. As Sudz said, it's Ron F*cking Mexico: Should anyone be surprised? It's not like this guy has suddenly fallen from the Peyton Manning Tower of NFL Morality into the bacchanalian abyss.

Take care,
PK

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:22 pm

pk500 wrote:Vick is an idiot, no doubt. But I find it pretty ironic that the media and many fans are treating dogfighting as if it was gang-raping of a woman or first-degree murder.

What's even more ironic is that ESPN.com, the leader of the Vick persecution or prosecution (take your pick), has just devoted a new section of its Web site to mixed martial arts. It's OK for humans to beat the living sh*t out of each other in a sport in which hurting the other guy to the point of submission and injury is the object, but throw canines in "the octagon" doing the same thing, and it's a felony right up there with child porn?

Meanwhile, how many NFL players have multiple children out of wedlock or sleep around on their wives during every away game? I guess that's OK as long as that player doesn't let pit bulls rip the sh*t out of each other.

This story is borderline irrelevant to me, and I dig the NFL. As Sudz said, it's Ron F*cking Mexico: Should anyone be surprised? It's not like this guy has suddenly fallen from the Peyton Manning Tower of NFL Morality into the bacchanalian abyss.

Take care,
PK

We all know how much you love dogs, PK.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:36 pm

No question that plays into my opinions, Pete. But philanderers and serial sperm shooters are given a free pass, but guys who participate in dogfighting are John Wayne Gacy?

Guess it's just me who thinks that way.

Take care,
PK

LAking · Post by **LAking** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:40 pm

What's even more ironic is that ESPN.com, the leader of the Vick persecution or prosecution (take your pick), has just devoted a new section of its Web site to mixed martial arts. It's OK for humans to beat the living sh*t out of each other in a sport in which hurting the other guy to the point of submission and injury is the object, but throw canines in "the octagon" doing the same thing, and it's a felony right up there with child porn?

Two words: Consenting adults. No one is saying it's on the same level as rape or anything like that, but it's cruel, not to mention illegal.

Meanwhile, how many NFL players have multiple children out of wedlock or sleep around on their wives during every away game? I guess that's OK as long as that player doesn't let pit bulls rip the sh*t out of each other.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Whether or not athletes are committing adulatory or having children out of wedlock and not paying child support is irrelevant. They are assholes for that AND they are assholes for running a dogfighting ring. The only difference here is that dogfighting is illegal while cheating on your wife isn't.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:53 pm

You have to remember that once these dogs outlive their 'fighting' lives, they get sold or kept as pets. These dogs that go through this are no way pet status. These are the type of dogs you hear in the news that attack people and afflict bodily harm or even death.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:06 pm

It's OK for humans to beat the living sh*t out of each other in a sport in which hurting the other guy to the point of submission and injury is the object, but throw canines in "the octagon" doing the same thing, and it's a felony right up there with child porn?

The humans doing the fighting weren't trained to do it from birth. And they don't have to do it - they have a choice. Those dogs don't have a choice.

But PK, your post does bring up a larger issue for the NFL - and that is that the new commissioner is basically making decisions without any specific guidelines in place. It seems to me that the NFL is headed down a rocky road. While it is hard to defend Pac Man Jones, he has been convicted in the court of public opinion rather than in a courtroom.

What if no charges are brought against Vick, but the NFL suspends him 2 games for it anyway?? How can the NFL judge Vick's actions in that manner?? Because he makes the league look bad? Then what about suspending Tom Brady one game for having a child out of wedlock? Doesn't that make the league look bad as well? And what about all of the players with drunk driving convictions? Where does the NFL draw the line - based on what the commissioner thinks?

Maybe the NFL Players Association doesn't care about due process, but a policy based on the whims of the commissioner is not a good idea for something as big as the NFL.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:09 pm

Inuyasha wrote:You have to remember that once these dogs outlive their 'fighting' lives, they get sold or kept as pets. These dogs that go through this are no way pet status. These are the type of dogs you hear in the news that attack people and afflict bodily harm or even death.

Exactly. It's not like a reluctant Lassie and Old Yeller are squaring up for a fanged fight to the death.

I'd rather have that violent, vicious animal ripping the sh*t out of some other violent, vicious animal than taking a piece out of my kid's body. My son was bitten in the FACE at age 3, with ZERO provocation by him at all, by a black lab. So you might understand why I don't feel much sympathy or sorrow over two violent dogs tearing at each other's flesh in a ring.

I don't endorse dog fighting, but my tear ducts are Mojave dry when thinking about it, too.

Take care,
PK

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:39 pm

pk500 wrote: I'd rather have that violent, vicious animal ripping the sh*t out of some other violent, vicious animal than taking a piece out of my kid's body. My son was bitten in the FACE at age 3, with ZERO provocation by him at all, by a black lab. So you might understand why I don't feel much sympathy or sorrow over two violent dogs tearing at each other's flesh in a ring.

I don't endorse dog fighting, but my tear ducts are Mojave dry when thinking about it, too.

Take care,
PK

PK, I almost always agree with what you say, but here I disagree with everything you have said. These dogs are violent because they are bred that way. They might naturally have some of that in them, but for them most part are harmless, not unlike any other domesticated dog. The trainers teach them to fight and train them to rip the sh*t out of each other. Your comparison of dogfighting to the UFC or such is illogical. Like previous posters said, these dogs have no choice and are put in there for our greed and amusement. These dogs often fight until death or even worse, until one dog is so wounded that it cannot continue. This is just cruel in it's most basic sense and causing the death of another one of God's creatures could be viewed as "murder" by some. Do you think the creator of all life views all his creatures differently? Whether or not you believe that a dog's life has little value compared to human's is another issue, but this is a crule, pointless sport that needs to be stopped. If Vick can be the "poster boy" that triggers the end of this "sport", then at least he will have done some good in all this. The guy makes millions and can't keep his nose clean. I don't have any sympathy at all for him. He owns the property where some of his family members were running dog fights.....that guilty enough for me. Without his name & money, this operation wouldn't have been operating.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:46 pm

Jack:

As I said, my son was bit in the face by a dog at age 3 for absolutely no reason of his own.

One of his wounds was in a spot where the Leet anethestic wasn't working, so two of his five stitches were received with no numbing agent.

I had to had to help hold down my boy on an emergency room bed while he screamed in agony as a plastic surgeon ran a needle and thread through his skin to repair a puncture wound under his lip that a cocktail straw could have fit through.

I also have a scar on my right hand from a dog bite from when I was in third grade. I was chased and nipped by countless dogs as a runner and now as a cyclist only because I happened to be on the road in front of that dog's home.

So again, pardon me if I shed zero tears for the canine world. If that makes me a bad guy, I could give eight sh*ts.

Others' mileage clearly varies, as it should.

Take care,
PK

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:18 pm

PK,
Does you live in a world without fences? Because that's a lot of dogs running loose.

Back to this story. The reason what this is worse than spreading your DNA throughout the US, is this is illegal and everyone knows it's illegal. Chasing tail and having 27 kids isn't illegal, stupid but not illegal.

Plus it's inhumane. While PK hates dogs, most of the known world have a special place in their hearts for kind dogs. There was just a long thread after Dan lost his dog.

And I'll go back to this, there's no such thing as a bad dog. There's dogs that aren't trained leading to bad behavior or in this case, dogs that are trained solely to kill other dogs. If the are bred, then have dogs that will be violent towards humans and other dogs by design.

Vick is moron. NFL should suspend him for a season. He's already been caught with pot, and now this. If he's gone for the season, see if he pulls a Ricky Williams or gets his act straight.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:29 pm

I use to hate dogs too when I was growing up. Seemed like they were always loose and trying to bite me and my friends.

But our family moved to a more pet friendly location and the dogs there were very well behaved.

I learned that it really has to do with the dog owner rather than the dog on how they're raised. I've seen some dogs without leashes walking down the street with their owners like they were another human being. And of course, you have the violent bit bulls that are trained to attack. So their are two sides for everything.

Now for somewhat of a side note : When did it become acceptable in our youth to own pit bulls because it made the kids look badder or more like thugs? Being a AA, I've seen this in some of our neighborhoods and it's disgusts me that some of the parents go along with this. I've seen a group of kids just walking down the street with a pitbull acting tough and threatening other pedestrians with their dogs. Completely ridiculous.

Is this the reason Mike Vick got into all this? There's some weird ass mental element in some of today's Professional Athletes that they have to remain thug and badass even though they got all the money in the world. Sort of like Ray Lewis was when he got into all that trouble in Atlanta. But they got to realize all the money in the world won't free you from stupid acts and the consequences.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:34 pm

JRod wrote:PK,
Does you live in a world without fences? Because that's a lot of dogs running loose.

Yes. I live in a rural area with no leash laws, and this isn't SoCal or the suburban West where everyone has a model of the Berlin Wall around their yard. Wide-open spaces, my man.

Here's a shot of a barn about seven-tenths of a mile from my house:

Oh, wait: Here's a fence -- barbed wire to keep the herd off my road. Very good friends of ours own the horse/cattle farm about a mile down the road from us. Big Sabres' fans!

Most dog owners around here have invisible fences for their dogs, but some don't. An asshole down the road who lets his two Siberian huskies run wild at times wondered in incredulity why I asked him to keep his dogs the hell away from menacing my kids when they were waiting for the bus in the morning.

Proof that you're right, John: Idiotic humans tend to raise idiotic animals.

I never would hurt a dog other than in self-defense, and I feel for someone who has lost a dog as a pet, as I'm a pet owner. It sucks to lose a pet, regardless of type.

But it's no secret that I feel nothing for canines other than police, rescue and seeing-eye dogs.

Take care,
PK

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:12 pm

pk500 wrote:
Proof that you're right, John: Idiotic humans tend to raise idiotic animals.

Take care,
PK

Exactly. Dogs are reflections of the humans around them.

That's one of the things that fascinate me about retired racing greyhounds. They buck that trend. After being treated like sh*t by humans for the first 2-6 years of their lives, they somehow find it in themselves to forgive us and become these wonderful, loving pets.

I'm always amazed seeing a dog who came straight from the track, seeing the fear and hatred in his eyes... then a month or so later seeing the happiness, trust and love in those same eyes... it's just an incredible process to witness.

ProvoAnC · Post by **ProvoAnC** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:26 pm

pk500 wrote:
But it's no secret that I feel nothing for canines other than police, rescue and seeing-eye dogs.

Take care,
PK

And Ted

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:58 pm

pk500 wrote:Jack:
As I said, my son was bit in the face by a dog at age 3 for absolutely no reason of his own.

I also have a scar on my right hand from a dog bite from when I was in third grade.

Sorry - I didn't know about that. I can certainly understand your feelings towards dogs. Fact is that people will cheat, lie, kill, deceive and harm you in your lifetime much more than dogs will, but you don't hate all people, do you? Anyway, at least now I can see where you are coming from. If that happened to my son, I would probably have a different view.