Madden 08 Hands On

[ScoopBrady]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/789/789850p1.html

[Brando70]

Thanks for the link, Scoop. Actually dug into some specifics. I'll believe it all when I see it, but the franchise has typically made its biggest leap in its third iteration each generation.

[vader29]

Any word on if they are going to have tv announcers in this years version or are they going with the radio guy again?

[GTHobbes]

Wonder if we'll get more than one camera angle this year. Hopefully the third year will be the charm.

[seanmac31]

How interesting that EA would get their act together the same year that VC comes out with a next gen game of their own. I'm not saying EA was trying to put out poor products the last two years, and I understand that APF 2K8 will barely put a dent in Madden's sales. But still.

[XXXIV]

How interesting that EA would get their act together the same year that VC comes out with a next gen game of their own. I'm not saying EA was trying to put out poor products the last two years, and I understand that APF 2K8 will barely put a dent in Madden's sales. But still.

Madden did get better a few years back when 2k put the screws to them so it would stand to reason the competition would push the lazy fucks at EA.....BUT....I thought Madden was a very good game last year less the simple extras that its EAness would not allow.

[spooky157]

Here's a youtube video of some of the new gang tackling animations for Madden 08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V5Cc2UfGYQ

[seanmac31]

Here's a youtube video of some of the new gang tackling animations for Madden 08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V5Cc2UfGYQ

I still think the animations look pretty choppy, despite the upped framerate. APF 2K8 has much less player detail, but the animations are far more fluid. Hopefully this is from an early build and will be cleaned up by release, but all of EA's games save FIFA suffer from what looks like missing frames.

[Brando70]

Here's a youtube video of some of the new gang tackling animations for Madden 08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V5Cc2UfGYQ

I still think the animations look pretty choppy, despite the upped framerate. APF 2K8 has much less player detail, but the animations are far more fluid. Hopefully this is from an early build and will be cleaned up by release, but all of EA's games save FIFA suffer from what looks like missing frames.

I still agree with what Sport said in the APF 2k8 thread, that the new 2k8 videos still have that same stiff look the 2k series has always had. I thought the Madden video looked more dynamic, and less like the engine was triggering an animation sequence.

Regardless, I think the game looks quite a bit better than what I remember Madden 07 looking like.

[spooky157]

Here's a youtube video of some of the new gang tackling animations for Madden 08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V5Cc2UfGYQ

I still think the animations look pretty choppy, despite the upped framerate. APF 2K8 has much less player detail, but the animations are far more fluid. Hopefully this is from an early build and will be cleaned up by release, but all of EA's games save FIFA suffer from what looks like missing frames.

I still agree with what Sport said in the APF 2k8 thread, that the new 2k8 videos still have that same stiff look the 2k series has always had. I thought the Madden video looked more dynamic, and less like the engine was triggering an animation sequence.

Regardless, I think the game looks quite a bit better than what I remember Madden 07 looking like.

I guess this must be very subjective because I've always felt the exact opposite - that the 2K engine flowed much better and was less stiff compared to Madden...the tackles, running game and LOS interaction looked world's better on 2K5 than Madden 07 360, IMO. The animations in the passing game, the DB and WR interaction specifically, sucked compared to Madden though.

I'm just glad Madden added gang tackling that looks good. Hopefully it works as well as it did in 2K5.

[wco81]

Well, most I expect are incremental changes. EA has plied this song and dance before, about more responsive controls. They bring it back and then take it away a couple years later. Then bring it back, then take it away. Rinse and repeat.

User catches? Beware of jet packs and Madden tourney types throwing into a crowd so they can strafe and catch far underneath. Or circling around the target to lead the DB away. Always be wary of EA claims about improved pass defense.

Keep expectations low -- most of the features are either evolutionary or last-gen features which are "new" for this generation.

Oh and weapons? That's like the star player system they had in NCAA a few seasons ago. Made the field unbalanced as offenses tried to avoid them and defenses focus on them. In Madden it's already hard to throw over an Urlacher because of those super jump ints. on post and slant routes. Now they're going to accentuate that?

And I'm sure the big backs who are designated weapons will truck stick and tecmo bowl (Bo Jackson style) down the field for frequent 250-yard games.

Real innovations -- things which haven't been done before in the genre -- like pure physics-driven animations or more than 2-player online (alluded to in the article) will probably never happen.

[Brando70]

I guess this must be very subjective because I've always felt the exact opposite - that the 2K engine flowed much better and was less stiff compared to Madden...the tackles, running game and LOS interaction looked world's better on 2K5 than Madden 07 360, IMO. The animations in the passing game, the DB and WR interaction specifically, sucked compared to Madden though.

I'm just glad Madden added gang tackling that looks good. Hopefully it works as well as it did in 2K5.

I don't mean to imply that Madden looked better than 2k. I don't think that was ever the case. But the RBs in 2k always looked very odd to me when they ran. Too upright and stiff or something, almost like they had the runs and were trying to get to the can in time.

I thought Madden 07 looked like crap on the 360. The blur effect was way overused, and I think NCAA 07 actually looked better. But this video had some nice animation sequences in the tackling and blocking. I liked in one how a player was blocked and knocked off balance but then recovered. And the way the arm tackles slipped off looked pretty good.

Anyway, didn't mean to turn this into the usual EA vs 2K circle jerk. I will probably buy both games because...well, because they probably will both disappoint me, just in different ways.

[seanmac31]

My bad- I assumed this link went back to Madden's trailer rather than a specific gang tackling demonstration. It looks significantly smoother than the trailer sequences, with the caveat that instant replay tends to accentuate the effect. People have been clamoring for gang tackles for years, so it's good to see that EA has spent significant time on it.

Brando- A lot of people seemed to feel that way about the 2K running model, although I didn't really see it myself. The one area where I thought 2K absolutely blew Madden away was in the speed and arc of the various passes. You could actually drop passes over the linebackers and in front of the safeties, and the ball didn't always come out of the quarterback's hand like it was fired from a rocket. I think that would have been a better area for EA to concentrate on than gang tackling, but that's just me.

[JRod]

seanmac,
I think it also helped that the LBs couldn't about a 15 yard area and intercept everything. You couple this with a little better ball physics than madden and you have a nice passing game.


The passing game in Madden is poor. In today's NFL you live and die with short routes. In madden anything sort of short route over the middle was next to impossible. You want to run a little TE in pattern. Forget it in Madden. For me, I see the problem and not enough spacing between the D-line and linebackers, then you mix in how much ground madden player can cover and how fast they react and you have a broken passing game.

In the NFL a foot of seperation can mean a completion. In madden you need the guy to be wide open. In contrast, NFL 2k always handled this better. The DBs were a problem but for the most part you could have games were you throw for 25-35 and only passed for 200 yards. In madden, if you threw it 35 times either you would complete 10 passes for 200 yards or gain 400 yards on 25 completions.

While I'm on the subect. What bothers me most about passing defense is the defense trying to intercept or swat the ball every time. That's not how it works in the NFL. I would say more times than not the defender in focused on hitting the receiver not the ball. This leads to a lot of big plays or stupid plays.

[Wilk5280]

How interesting that EA would get their act together the same year that VC comes out with a next gen game of their own. I'm not saying EA was trying to put out poor products the last two years, and I understand that APF 2K8 will barely put a dent in Madden's sales. But still.

I was really going to try and refrain from responding to this quote, but oh well.

Even in all of NFL 2K's glory with 2K5 and the 19.99 dollar price tag Madden sold more copies that year than any year prior.

Look, I enjoy both games and really despise all of this exclusive license BS, but that fact is that EA doesn't have to worry at all about APF 2K8. 2K5 at 19.99 didn't slow them down so I find it hard to believe that APF with a 59.99 price tag has EA Sports getting of their asses to ensure they don't lose market share.

Quick, tell me the best Madden on the PS2 was? Many seem to feel that 2003 (Faulk on the cover) was truly their best effort. Which year on the system was that again?

I think this being Madden's 3rd year on the new architecture has more to do with this supposedly being a good game than APF 2K8 does.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[XXXIV]

How interesting that EA would get their act together the same year that VC comes out with a next gen game of their own. I'm not saying EA was trying to put out poor products the last two years, and I understand that APF 2K8 will barely put a dent in Madden's sales. But still.

I was really going to try and refrain from responding to this quote, but oh well.

Even in all of NFL 2K's glory with 2K5 and the 19.99 dollar price tag Madden sold more copies that year than any year prior.

Look, I enjoy both games and really despise all of this exclusive license BS, but that fact is that EA doesn't have to worry at all about APF 2K8. 2K5 at 19.99 didn't slow them down so I find it hard to believe that APF with a 59.99 price tag has EA Sports getting of their asses to ensure they don't lose market share.

Quick, tell me the best Madden on the PS2 was? Many seem to feel that 2003 (Faulk on the cover) was truly their best effort. Which year on the system was that again?

I think this being Madden's 3rd year on the new architecture has more to do with this supposedly being a good game than APF 2K8 does.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

I agree with you to the extent that I thought Madden 07 was a pretty damn good game....but...

The competition sure as hell isnt going to hurt.

As for the best Madden last gen ...In My mind it was 2005. Coincidence or whatever...

As for sales I dont care except in that 1) if the 2k games really bombs badly that might be the end of competition in our lifetimes ...
2) if it does okay EA might actually gives us the entire game before the 6th year of the next generation.

Like you I will enjoy both games for their own merits.

[GameSeven]

In today's NFL you live and die with short shorts.

Like these?

[seanmac31]

How interesting that EA would get their act together the same year that VC comes out with a next gen game of their own. I'm not saying EA was trying to put out poor products the last two years, and I understand that APF 2K8 will barely put a dent in Madden's sales. But still.

I was really going to try and refrain from responding to this quote, but oh well.

Even in all of NFL 2K's glory with 2K5 and the 19.99 dollar price tag Madden sold more copies that year than any year prior.

Look, I enjoy both games and really despise all of this exclusive license BS, but that fact is that EA doesn't have to worry at all about APF 2K8. 2K5 at 19.99 didn't slow them down so I find it hard to believe that APF with a 59.99 price tag has EA Sports getting of their asses to ensure they don't lose market share.

Quick, tell me the best Madden on the PS2 was? Many seem to feel that 2003 (Faulk on the cover) was truly their best effort. Which year on the system was that again?

I think this being Madden's 3rd year on the new architecture has more to do with this supposedly being a good game than APF 2K8 does.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

I'd also go with 2005, which I actually preferred to 2K5 at the time, although I don't think it's held up as well.

Anyway, I'm not trying to recreate the intellectual slum that is the OS APF 2K8 board, with its absurd mix of rabid fanboyism and conspiracy theories. Obviously EA was concerned about the ground that the 2K series made up with their $19.99 price point- they wouldn't be shelling out all that money for the exclusive license if they felt completely unthreatened. But I can't imagine they're being concerned with the sales impact of a game with no NFL license. The only reason I mentioned it at all was that I was struck by the particular areas that EA chose to focus on- the framerate, obviously, but also the weapons concept, the branching animations and the player interactions- these were all areas where a 2K alternative could at least plausibly attempt to establish its credentials on. Last year Madden was putting in trite fluff and DOA features like their Do-It-Yourself blocking scheme, but this year they were suddenly and comprehensively targeting the glaring weaknesses in their game engine.

Coincidence, no coincidence, do with it as you will.

[seanmac31]

edit

[JRod]

I think I posted this at OS, but for AP it's all about market share. If they can get enough market to make this profitable then I think they succeed.

And for EA Sports, I don't think APF appearance is enough to make the company fall apart but I think if Madden sees a decrease in sales of 10-15%, you don't think that investors will take notice. EA Sports isn't make their game better for us, it's so they don't take a hit on this year's madden.

Last year, without any competition, they saw an increase of 12% from the previous year in the initial release . I think that's a big deal. This year it's all about market share.

Remember WE was just a game to get a piece of the market and in a few countries in Europe is sells more than FIFA.

[ScoopBrady]

Remember WE was just a game to get a piece of the market and in a few countries in Europe is sells more than FIFA.

I think what you're forgetting is the fact that WE at least had similar pro teams with players that were very close. You won't see a blue and white team with Meyton Panning as the QB in APF. Don't underestimate the importance of that. The former pros are cool but outside of guys like Elway and Payton who really cares? I'll buy it day one and so will many other football game fans. They would do well to mimic what WE did.

[JRod]

Scoop,
Very true. VC would be smart to mirror the real teams but I suspect they won't.

[Brando70]

I also don't think the "EA always improves when they have competition" is related to sales. The sports game development industry is a small one, and like any industry, the people making product will see what their competition is doing. I think that if the EA folks have another football game to look at, or a feature set they hear about, it triggers their own ideas and pushes them to make sure their product can do the same thing. What's funny about the 2k fanboy culture is that, to hear them tell it, Madden would still look like a PS1 game if it wasn't for the 2k series.

[kevinpars]

I think that EA is watching the monthly hardware charts a whole lot more closely than they are watching 2K's development. It stands to reason that a solid Madden on the Wii that uses the controller in new and creative ways could mean a lot more to sales than anything done by 2K.

If 2K releases the best video football game ever, it won't effect Madden sales a bit - much less 10-15 percent.

Personally, if I was to pick the biggest disappointments of the upcoming summer, I would go with 2K Football and the Police reunion tour. I don't think either entity holds up as well as fans think they do.

[kevinpars]

Sorry, double post