OT: Kids and College

[Leadfoot5]

Thought I'd see if any of you have had this problem before, as the demographic here suggests that some of you may have college aged kids as well.

Here's the problem. My oldest daughter, 18, is about to wrap up what was supposed to be her first full year of college. She graduated with honors from HS, and was set to be a math major and eventually wanted to be a HS Math Teacher.

We worked out a deal where she would live at home (for free) and we would pay for her classes at the local community college for two years, and then help her with tuition for a larger school for her last 2 years. (We're a family of six, so we don't have the funds to promise all the kids a free ride to a 4 year school).

This living at home bit includes a car that we bought her, car insurance, cell phone, food etc. She has a part time job as the lead hostess at Claim Jumper, but the point of the job was for her to help us out by saving money for school so she could help pay the tuition her last two years.

So in the past year, she has dropped two classes (that she did pay us back for), and now she is questioning the worth of even getting a degree since she no longer wants to be a math teacher. Instead, she wants to have more time to spend with her friends, and has no idea of what she wants to be anymore. She spends most of her time now just going out with her friends and watching TV at home.

Her motivation for school has tanked, and has taken my wife and I by TOTAL surprise. She was a straight-A student and always motivated, but this last year of "freedom" has really made her lazy.

So we are taking steps to have her pay for her own car insurance and cell phone, and telling her that she can pay for her own classes if she is going to be so cavalier about dropping them and not put in the time to study.

We've talked to her for hours, but we haven't gotten very far with her. One of the basic problems with her is that she truly does not want to grow up. She has admitted that to us. She doesn't want to be an adult, period. She's scared.

So as a parent this is a tough one. On the one hand, you want to continue to protect them, but on the other hand, you want to boot their ass out of the house so they can learn life the hard way, since she is totally taking advantage of all the things we are giving her. That's the part that is really hurting her mom and I. Being taken advantage of. All we asked is that she work hard in school and she's not holding up her end of the deal.

So what do you guys think? Let her live at home and do whatever she wants? Let her live at home but make her pay rent and pay for the car a phone and food? Or do we tell her that if she isn't going to go school, she can get a full time job and find somewhere else to live (with the caveat that if she changes her "outlook" she can move back in)?

Any other strategies that have worked???

[WillHunting]

So what do you guys think? Let her live at home and do whatever she wants? Let her live at home but make her pay rent and pay for the car a phone and food? Or do we tell her that if she isn't going to go school, she can get a full time job and find somewhere else to live (with the caveat that if she changes her "outlook" she can move back in)?

Any other strategies that have worked???

Wow, what a dilemma. I am not a parent so I am not fit to give any advice. But it seems like she is hanging out with the wrong crowd. I think tough love (get a full time job and move out) would be the best course of action but I can't imagine that as an easy thing to do (as a parent). Best of luck.

[warnerwlf98]

So what do you guys think? Let her live at home and do whatever she wants? Let her live at home but make her pay rent and pay for the car a phone and food? Or do we tell her that if she isn't going to go school, she can get a full time job and find somewhere else to live (with the caveat that if she changes her "outlook" she can move back in)?

Any other strategies that have worked???

Wow, what a dilemma. I am not a parent so I am not fit to give any advice. But it seems like she is hanging out with the wrong crowd. I think tough love (get a full time job and move out) would be the best course of action but I can't imagine that as an easy thing to do (as a parent). Best of luck.

I'm also not a parent, but I had a similar position for my undergrad. I had a 4-year university nearby where I got my electrical engineering degree. It worked out for me living at home to get my degree only because my goal never changed.

In your case, I think the best course of action would be for your daughter to try to transfer to a 4 year school for the next school year. Maybe she can get some funding to ease the financial burden for you - and maybe try to get a campus job. It seems like she's "grown out" of her living at home situation and it's time to try something new. This way she can get away from at least some of the bad influences and make some new friends in a new situation.

The most important thing here is that she needs some kind of long term goal to look toward. Having no future goals can be a problem - a school with a wide variety of majors could help her find something she enjoys.

As a side note, I wish I could teach high school math, but I'm both overqualified, and underqualified (state certification takes an additional year and a half) at the same time.

Good luck.

[Leadfoot5]

Thanks for the good wishes guys. Regarding her friends, that's another really weird thing about all of this. They are all super motivated, and a really nice group of kids. It's odd, but I think because they are doing so well and are so focused on their futures, it makes our daughter feel even more "down" that she doesn't know what she wants to do...

[Sudz]

how about the job friends...i worked a restaurant...

bunch 'o drunks.

it took me some time to get my degree. the best thing would be to have her apply right now for next year. apply for financial aid and take out student loans that she will pay back.

[dbdynsty25]

I, unfortunately, did exactly what your daughter is doing. I took advantage of my parents and their generosity when it came to paying for my schooling. I went to a 4 year college right out of high school and that couldn't have been a bigger mistake (so telling her to apply to a 4 year is a ridiculous suggestion if she can't even handle 13th grade).

You need to make her pay rent, pay utilities, pay for her car, etc. She has to learn how hard it is to make ends meet as a hostess and that she cannot do that forever if she wants to get beyond the "tv and going out" phase of her life. She needs to grow up and the only way to do that is to be responsible for her life. You don't have to get really harsh with her and kick her out, but you have to make her life more difficult so that she will understand what it will be like to live in the 'real world' by giving her those responsibilities, while still being under your roof. That way, at least you can help her if she starts to get in trouble (bills, credit cards, friends, etc.).

That is exactly what it took for me to realize what I was doing to my family both financially and emotionally. After taking a few years to get my life together and my responsibilities in order, it was a lot easier to go back to school...because I wanted to. No one is going to succeed at school if they hate every minute of it...especially at a 4 year college where there isn't anyone that really gives a sh*t if you go to class or not. She's obviously not at that point...you just have to help her get there.

[Naples39]

As a young guy currently in my mid-20s, I largely agree with what db said. Nothing will make you grow up faster than having to take some responsibility and realizing the drudgery of showing up every day for a low paying dead-end job.

The only problem with that is that she is only 18, and someone that age might be willing to accept that lifestyle for a much longer period of time than someone who is in their mid-20s and already has a college degree. I found myself living at home for a few months after college+1.5 year fellowship of working at school, and that's when I said to myself I'm ready to move on. There can be a big difference between 18 and 24 in that regard however.

Opposed to what db said, I think going to a 4-year college can often be the best thing for people like your daughter if that's a feasible option for your family. It's easy to feel detached if you have no real goal at community college, but at a 4-year residential college you become part of the school community. Even if you don't know your major or life plan you feel a much bigger sense of belonging, and chances are you will get wrapped up in that, unlike living at home and commuting to school for a class or two then leaving again.

Sure, there's always a risk that she could get there and do nothing but party and blow off class, but if she had a really good work ethic in high school I doubt she will shirk her responsibilities once she is immersed in a more serious academic environment/lifestyle. Guess that's pretty much a judgment call that only you can make about your daughter.

[dbdynsty25]

There is just too big of a financial risk (both for Leadfoot and the kid) at a 4 year university. She's proven she doesn't care about school...why would you risk it with even higher repercussions? That's my issue with the 4 year school at this point. Fine, send her there right out of HS, but not after she has already blown off a year of school. Way too much risk, with minimal reward at this point.

[Leadfoot5]

Thanks for the great insight guys. We'll be talking to her again soon...

[pk500]

Tough call, Lead. My old man paid for school for me, but staying all four years, getting at least a 3.0 GPA and graduating wasn't a wish -- it was a demand, an expectation, a requirement.

So if I didn't achieve that or wanted to drop out, I was on my own. It was that simple.

My old man isn't a hard-ass or a prick. But he knew how important education was. As I said in a military thread last week here, the only way my old man went to school was on the GI Bill. His dad was a truck driver, his mother a homemaker. There was no way he could afford even two-year school without the GI Bill, so he valued his education like gold.

If your daughter wants to act like an adult and not go to college, then she should be prepared to shoulder the responsibilities and burdens of adulthood.

As far as I see it, college is the only place you can get higher education and delay the responsibilities of adulthood for four years. Some of the most carefree years of your life. There are 24 hours in a day. After studying and sleep are done, that still leaves a ton of hours for screwing around and having fun. That's the way I always saw it.

Good luck.

Take care,
PK

[GTHobbes]

From someone whose parents didn't pay their way for college, I say you've already helped way more than necessary. All of the kids in my family took out loans, sought out grants, held part-time jobs, etc., to get through school (including post-grad), and we did just fine. Personally, I always wondered where the kids whose parents paid for school found the motivation to do anything. In my experience (based only on what I observed), they usually didn't.

[RallyMonkey]

Lead,

I actually work as a Director of College Counseling at a private high school and each year i seem to have a student who lacks the drive/desire for college for any number of reasons. Not sure what they want to do, worried about making new friends, don't feel smart enough, etc. For most of them the best conversation i can have with them is to look at college not for the academics, but rather the social, personal, and emotional growth that comes from those 4/5/6 years. From the sounds of things, she is so concerned with career that she has lost focus on those other pieces. A couple of suggestions:

--Visit a local career/college counselor who might be able to give her some advice specific to her wants and needs (they are in there, it may take a third party to bring them to the surface) I'm sure you have some private ones in your area if her high school one was/is not terribly helpful

-- Offer to take her to a few four year colleges so she can understand that an "Undecided" major is actually one of the best ways to enter as she then can "sample" many different types of courses as she looks for her passion

-- On those visits have her get away from the admissions staff and roam the campus seeking out students just hanging out, be it in the gym, art room, on the quad, in the student union, what have you and talk to them about their college. It's enlightening and pretty amazing the amount of information she will get from them. Lest she not forget they were all in her very shoes 1-2-3 years prior.

--This is the toughest part, be OVERLY supportive throughout all of this. Teenagers will battle their parents tooth and nail when they feel pressured, especially when it comes to college. If she truly thinks this is her decision her mind will be much more open to it. She may still end up deciding not to go, but throughout it she knows she has the support of the people who mean the most to her.

-- Lastly, i couldn't tell if you inferred that her friends were in college or not, but if they are, with any luck they will be talking about all the fun they're having and may be able to get her to see college is more than "school". Mark Twain said it best "Don't let schooling get in the way of your education." Nothing is more true when it comes to the "education" one gets in college.

Good luck man and feel free to PM me if you want to talk.

[macsomjrr]

So in the past year, she has dropped two classes (that she did pay us back for), and now she is questioning the worth of even getting a degree since she no longer wants to be a math teacher. Instead, she wants to have more time to spend with her friends, and has no idea of what she wants to be anymore. She spends most of her time now just going out with her friends and watching TV at home.

I dunno but to me this is pretty uncool. How can she just decide that you are going to continue to take care of her while she goes and hangs out with her friends? Personally I would treat this as a "phase" for a couple weeks and then take it from there. You have to treat the situation delicately I'm sure, you don't want to push her away but at the same time she should realize what a strain this is on you. Ultimately this is her decision, and letting her make the right choice for her will probably be the hardest part for you, especially if it doesn't fit what you want for her.

I was the total opposite of your daughter when I was in HS. I graduated near the bottom of my class and then decided to take school seriously once I started at my local JC. Two years later I moved onto UCSD for undergrad, and then veterinary school. A lot of my friends who were successful in HS ending up doing just the opposite when it came to post-HS studies (not all of course).

Good luck!

[Leadfoot5]

Guys - Thanks a million for your helpful replies. Just read through them all with my wife and she wanted me to pass on her thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Rally, I may take you up on that PM offer, thanks.

I'll let you know how the "discussions" go.