OT: Anyone Play Adult Baseball?

[JackB1]

I just joined a adult baseball league for 40+ and am going to give pitching a try. Would appreciate any pitching tips from anyone who has pitching experience. Some questions I have:

-Is there any way to practice without having someone to pitch to? Like a target that you can throw to or something? I really need to build my arm strenght back up.

-Most of my pitches end up high and inside (to a righty). Does that mean I am releasing too early?

-On a 4 seam fastball, should my bottom thumb be resting on a seam or on the smooth part of the ball?

-What is the easiest changeup grip to learn? I tried most of them and have a hard time getting used to those grips.

-Is there a easy way or a secret to getting a grip on the ball before the pitch? Until I get the sign from the catcher, I don't know how to grip the ball and I dont want to give it awy to the batter either. I notice some pitchers spin the ball around in their bare hand until they get the grip they want and others leave the ball in the glove and then adjust before the pitch. I know this stuff becomes second nature after a while, but now it's not easy.

-On a pickoff attempt, do I HAVE to step off the rubber with my back (right) foot first and then strp towards 1st base with my left foot and throw? Seems a little awkward to me.

[bdunn13]

"-Most of my pitches end up high and inside (to a righty). Does that mean I am releasing too early? "


Try stepping further with your front foot, this will bring the ball down.


"What is the easiest changeup grip to learn? I tried most of them and have a hard time getting used to those grips. "

Circle and three finger change are pretty easy to get use to.

http://library.thinkquest.org/J0111661/ ... ngeups.htm

[Danimal]

-Is there any way to practice without having someone to pitch to? Like a target that you can throw to or something? I really need to build my arm strenght back up.

A tire. But there are a ton of devices you can buy, depends if you want to spend cash.

-Most of my pitches end up high and inside (to a righty). Does that mean I am releasing too early?

Actually it culd be a number of thigns from how you stride, to your release point (over head, 3/4, side arms etc) So it's really hard to say without seeing you in action.

-On a 4 seam fastball, should my bottom thumb be resting on a seam or on the smooth part of the ball?

seam

-What is the easiest changeup grip to learn? I tried most of them and have a hard time getting used to those grips.

If you learn to throw a change up now with no experience pitching, then I say you're pretty damm impressive. As for the easiest grip, I don't know.

-Is there a easy way or a secret to getting a grip on the ball before the pitch? Until I get the sign from the catcher, I don't know how to grip the ball and I dont want to give it awy to the batter either.

Really personal preference / feel thing IMO anyway.

-On a pickoff attempt, do I HAVE to step off the rubber with my back (right) foot first and then strp towards 1st base with my left foot and throw? Seems a little awkward to me.

LOL, How exactly would you make your move to first without doing this as a right handed pitcher?

[Airdog]

Wow, fastball. I'm only 24 and I think half of my team would get seriously injured playing that.

[Zeppo]

-On a pickoff attempt, do I HAVE to step off the rubber with my back (right) foot first and then strp towards 1st base with my left foot and throw? Seems a little awkward to me.

No, you do not, you can pivot on the rubber with your back foot, but you do have to throw the ball to first. You cannot fake a pickoff move to first, that would be a balk. However, if your foot is not on the rubber, you can fake or at least do a little twitchy move to scare the runner, but you must clearly step back off the rubber distinctly (has to be back, not towards the plate) and then do the herky-jerky. Once you're on the rubber, any move towards the plate without delivering the pitch is a bald.

You can, however, fake a pickoff to 2nd or 3rd base, and you see that fake to 3rd, fake to 1st move all the time. The pitcher fakes a p/o move to third from the rubber, then steps his foot back off the rubber and can turn and fake to first without throwing.

Also remember that you can't stand on the mound if you don't have the ball, I think that's a balk as well.

Also, my biggest advice would be to get a bucket to hold the ice for after your games. Your arm is not going to be thankful to you for trying this out!

[pigpen81]

Jack, when I get time later today or tonight, I'll write up a tutorial on pitching for you.

There are some easy fundamentals you can do...but the first key is balance at the top of your delivery.

[Inuyasha]

I'm in a league as well, and I've pm'd Pigpen to help me with hitting in the past and his tips really helped. Still trying to get under the ball more so I can hit a HR.

I am in a 30-40 league and it's the first time I started playing baseball since my early 20s. The biggest hurdle for me to pass was getting my arm back. I don't mean pitching, but just throwing. So best remedy for this is just to keep throwing so you can get your arm use to the motion again.

As for pitching, I would suggest just going with the fastball and not throwing any other pitches especially if you haven't in a long time. (I play CF/OF on my team but get used as a relief man from time to time.)

Even though our league is very competitive, at the end we all realize it's all for fun. Just keep that in mind when you start playing. For myself, when I go out to CF during the game and just stand there, not even when a ball is hit my way, I feel like a kid playing baseball again with my buddies at the park.

Good luck.

[JackB1]

Thanks Piggy, that would be great!

BTW, this isn't the first time I pitched....it's just been so long, everything
is new again and has to be "re-learned". The tip on striding longer to keep the ball down more was right on. I tried that a little last night and it seemed to really help.

Jack, when I get time later today or tonight, I'll write up a tutorial on pitching for you.

There are some easy fundamentals you can do...but the first key is balance at the top of your delivery.

[Sudz]

http://www.lulu.com/content/683261

[bphilipb]

I guess I will chime in too...

I still play in an adult league and I do pitch. Because of my day job, I have learned a lot of little things that have helped me.

Here are a few things that I hope will help...

1) Since you are just starting out try not to over throw when pitching. Guys tend to put a death grip on the baseball and either release it to late (ball in the dirt) or too early (a pitch way high). Just because they are calling for a fastball doesn't mean that you have to go out of your mind trying to throw it through the backstop.

2) Try not to mess with too many curveballs till you build up some arm strength. Actually, if you can help it try to stay away for as long as you can. Curveballs are not as easy to throw as you think and they really strain your elbow. A lot of guys come in thinking they are going to throw some devastating breaking ball and end up blowing up their elbow.

3) Balance. Find a motion that helps you keep the ball over the plate. This will keep you from walking too many guys and keeps the guys in the field happy.

4) Everyone has a different way of holding the ball before their windup. What I do is have the ball in my glove and hold my in front of my face. (the top of my glove is about tip of my nose high. A lot of Major League guys do this. I was taught this back in high school and always stuck with it. When I get the signal from the catcher, I grip the ball the way I want to, then start my wind-up. Everyone is different so see what make you most comfortable.

5) To give your fastball some variety go with the seams once in awhile. Also, grab either 4 seams or grab 2 seams. I can pm you a photo from my next game. This will vary the speed some for you. The best thing I have found is having a good catcher. Since you are just starting, have the catcher move around a little bit (outside, right over the plate, high, in on the hands if you can do it). This way you maybe only throwing one pitch or even a couple pitches but to the hitter he doesn't know "where" the pitch is going. This will keep him off balance. i.e. bust him in a few teams then go away once or try the reverse.

6) Remember nobody is getting paid to play. It is a recreational adult league. You are not Roger Clemens or Johan Santana. When you get on the rubber remember to breathe. It sounds funny but you will be surprised when you get out there how some of the butterflies kick in. You have guys behind you playing defense.

7) One way that I practice is by not using a baseball at all. I use a medium size hand towel. I wrap part of it around my throwing hand and the other part of the towel I just leave free. I have my glove on and I go through my mechanics. Balance, breathing, follow through, etc...etc. I will simulate about 80-85 pitches. I will envision location and arm strength. I find this helps with just getting your basics down so that when you do get on the mound, you feel comfortable.

Little side tips... make sure you really stretch out your muscles and get loose. Legs, arms... everything. Don't just warm up and jump up on the mound. Throw some long toss. You see the pros do it all of the time before a game. They will throw from the foul line to center field to stretch out their arms. There is a reason for their madness. Practice throwing out of the stretch too.

I can also send you a photo of a knuckle curve that uses the same motion as the fastball and is damn nice to throw. It is easy on the elbow and is my out pitch.

Sorry this is so long but I hope this helps. Let me know if you need anything else.

BB

[bphilipb]

Jack, sorry I thought you were pitching for the first time.

BB

[Naples39]

I pitched up until my senior year of high school before I had to quit because of elbow problems. Some general thoughts:

- The most common mistake inexperienced pitchers make is they don't realize how much of pitching takes place in the lower body. The first part of that is balance--ideally you should be able to stop mid-motion and balance on one leg indefinitely. Otherwise you are throwing your upper body out of line which will lead to control issues. The second part of the balance equation is leg drive. Generally the bigger the stride the better, and after some practice your stride length should as long as your height, if not a little longer. It may feel awkward at first but is ultimately easier on your arm and gets you closer to the plate at release.

- I always did the 'circle-change' grip bdunn mentioned as it is the simplest to learn. All the grips felt pretty awkward to me at first, so it's more a matter of getting used to it rather than finding a magic grip.

- Any old thing should work for practice. I used to just find any backstop fixture or wall or chain link fence and throw into it. You can also put some tape onto it to make a strike zone if you like.

- Zep had a good explanation for a different pickoff move than stepping back. The only thing I can add is that the rule is that you can't step on the rubber until you have the ball, or else it's a balk. Being on the mound otherwise without the ball is fine.

[JackB1]

Great tips BB. I like your idea of holding the ball in the glove in front of you while getting the signals. You can then fiddle with the ball a little while its in your glove to get the right grip. Seems easier then trying to spin it around in your bare hand behind your back.

Is it basically the same while from the stretch? Just facing 3rd base?

I guess I will chime in too...

I still play in an adult league and I do pitch. Because of my day job, I have learned a lot of little things that have helped me.

Here are a few things that I hope will help...

1) Since you are just starting out try not to over throw when pitching. Guys tend to put a death grip on the baseball and either release it to late (ball in the dirt) or too early (a pitch way high). Just because they are calling for a fastball doesn't mean that you have to go out of your mind trying to throw it through the backstop.

2) Try not to mess with too many curveballs till you build up some arm strength. Actually, if you can help it try to stay away for as long as you can. Curveballs are not as easy to throw as you think and they really strain your elbow. A lot of guys come in thinking they are going to throw some devastating breaking ball and end up blowing up their elbow.

3) Balance. Find a motion that helps you keep the ball over the plate. This will keep you from walking too many guys and keeps the guys in the field happy.

4) Everyone has a different way of holding the ball before their windup. What I do is have the ball in my glove and hold my in front of my face. (the top of my glove is about tip of my nose high. A lot of Major League guys do this. I was taught this back in high school and always stuck with it. When I get the signal from the catcher, I grip the ball the way I want to, then start my wind-up. Everyone is different so see what make you most comfortable.

5) To give your fastball some variety go with the seams once in awhile. Also, grab either 4 seams or grab 2 seams. I can pm you a photo from my next game. This will vary the speed some for you. The best thing I have found is having a good catcher. Since you are just starting, have the catcher move around a little bit (outside, right over the plate, high, in on the hands if you can do it). This way you maybe only throwing one pitch or even a couple pitches but to the hitter he doesn't know "where" the pitch is going. This will keep him off balance. i.e. bust him in a few teams then go away once or try the reverse.

6) Remember nobody is getting paid to play. It is a recreational adult league. You are not Roger Clemens or Johan Santana. When you get on the rubber remember to breathe. It sounds funny but you will be surprised when you get out there how some of the butterflies kick in. You have guys behind you playing defense.

7) One way that I practice is by not using a baseball at all. I use a medium size hand towel. I wrap part of it around my throwing hand and the other part of the towel I just leave free. I have my glove on and I go through my mechanics. Balance, breathing, follow through, etc...etc. I will simulate about 80-85 pitches. I will envision location and arm strength. I find this helps with just getting your basics down so that when you do get on the mound, you feel comfortable.

Little side tips... make sure you really stretch out your muscles and get loose. Legs, arms... everything. Don't just warm up and jump up on the mound. Throw some long toss. You see the pros do it all of the time before a game. They will throw from the foul line to center field to stretch out their arms. There is a reason for their madness. Practice throwing out of the stretch too.

I can also send you a photo of a knuckle curve that uses the same motion as the fastball and is damn nice to throw. It is easy on the elbow and is my out pitch.

Sorry this is so long but I hope this helps. Let me know if you need anything else.

BB

[JackB1]

this is my biggest problem right now....finding something to throw to.
my games are on Sun and I can throw before the games, but I want to build up arm strength during the week and don't have many guys willing to "play catch" with. I saw some targets at Sports Authority, but they were all over $100. I can get a bucket of 25 balls for about $30, but I think throwing into a fence, wall or backstop will ruin them quickly. Maybe I can find some kind of a rubber mat and lean that up against a wall or something? I also saw those "pitchback" things at S. Authority, but aren't those for kids? Can you throw hard into them?

Thanks all you guys for the great tips. Cant wait to hit the mound!

I Any old thing should work for practice. I used to just find any backstop fixture or wall or chain link fence and throw into it. You can also put some tape onto it to make a strike zone if you like.

[Airdog]

http://www.lulu.com/content/683261

LOL. You're such a pimp.

[pigpen81]

OK Jack, here is a step by step breakdown of the pitching delivery and what to strive for:

1) Find a comfortable take off with your non-balance foot....I use a short step towards the side...the key is that the step must help you reach the balance point on the balance foot.

2) Swing your non-balnace leg up and tight into your body...think of coiling as tight as you can like a wound up spring....if done correctly, your back pocket should be facing home plate...keep your shoulder and hip tight into your body.....when you reach the top you are at your balance point.

3) Balance point: Emphasize this when practicing...it is critical...the body should not wavor to one side or the other when you are here...everything is balanced...many pitchers make the mistake of falling towards the mound before balanced and the result is the arm dragging behind the delivery...leading to up and in pitches or worse yet, throwing across the body to compensate...which leads to arm problems.

Drill: Do many many take off's to balance point and hold for 5 seconds....keeping body coiled in(tight) while holding.

4) Drop and drive: After balance point is met, drop your balance leg as low as possible and then push off of it hard towrds the plate. This is an old school approach as the fall to the plate is in vogue now but I give you the best two examples of Drop and Drive: Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver. Nolan Ryan threw so hard for so long because he used his legs to bring the extra velocity...notice, no major arm injuries in his long career...all his injuries were hamstring variety because of his incredible leg drive.

Seaver actually muddied his balance knee as it scraped the ground because of his incredible leg drive. You will increase velocity if done right.

Drill: From the top of your balance point, drop and drive many many times....no ball needed.

Important point almost forgotten....at the top of your delivery, point your lead toe down...doing this will cause you to land soft on the mound which is important in keeping the ball down in the zone. Pitchers who point the toe in the air tend to keep the ball up unless their athleticism overcomes it.

5) As you drop and drive keep your lead shoulder, lead hip and leg as tight as possible to your target as well as your glove hand...all go towrads target. Do not open early as it will lead to throwing across your body(biggest mistake in pitching). As you drop and drive....explode(uncoil your spring) to your target...(note...your target may not be the strike zone...for example....when I throw a knuckle curve my target is the batters head...LOL)

6) The pitch.....Reach to your target when throwing...you want to release the ball as late and far away from you as possible. The reason is two-fold....late release gives the batter less time to see the ball as it is released closer to the batter as it is travelling less distance .....and...late release puts better movement on your pitches.

When in a strecth....reach balance point but doing so the normal way increases the time for a SB.

You can slide step and reach balance point this way.....pick up your lead foot a couple of inches off the ground....hold until balance is met...then furiously drop and drive to the dish keeping the above fundamentals.

As far as practice...find anywhere with a cement wall...the back of a supermarket....a school's racquetball court...anywhere and use old baseballs.

If you have a throwing partner...let me know...I have a great throwing proram from John Savage...USC's pitching coach when Zito and Prior were there and I believe UCLA's current head coach. I have it in a Word document.

Feel free to ask me any questions if any of this didn't make sense...and I hope this helps.

My best adult league pitching game: 21k's in 9 innings....still gave up 1 run on 4 judy hits...LOL...

Besides a change up...the knuckle curve is a great and easy pitch to learn...and requires no wrist/elbow snap to execute.

Good luck!

[RobVarak]

http://www.amazon.com/Saving-Pitcher-Wi ... 1566635780

[Sudz]

http://www.lulu.com/content/683261

LOL. You're such a pimp.

ha!

gotta pay the billz.

yes....

billz.

[pk500]

What about Tom Emanski? Back-to-back-to-back AAU National Championships!

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/030709.html

If Fred McGriff gives it his highest recommendation, then it must be for everyone.



Take care,
PK

[bphilipb]

What about Tom Emanski? Back-to-back-to-back AAU National Championships!

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/030709.html

If Fred McGriff gives it his highest recommendation, then it must be for everyone.



Take care,
PK

Now that was funny PK!

[fatheadX]

I'm in my second year of old man baseball (35+ wood bat) and I love it. I'm a pitcher as well, and what I do to get some throwing in is buy some rubber balls that look like baseballs (Dick's and Sports Authority have them for $2 or $3 each, made by Franklin) and throw them up against a brick wall. It's good for working the arm between games.

Last year, I tended to abuse my arm in the thought that would make it stronger, but it just gave me a sore arm. This year, I've started much slower, working more on my form and topping out at about 60% of full power when practicing. Basically I've been avoiding the 'tingling sensation' in my shoulder, rather than trying to pitch through it. I can still reach back during a game and throw hard, but I've noticed my arm just feels more lively. My arm feels much better so far. We'll see how it progresses during the season.

My changeup stinks as well, I keep leaving it up in the zone. Guys never miss a changeup above the belt.

[JackB1]

2 things...

1) Can you explain the grip and how to throw the k-curve?

2) Is there a "best way" to lay the ball in your glove before you grip it?
I read somehwere to be ready to grip a curveball all the time, because it's easier to regrip it to a fastball, then it would be vice versa.

Great stuff BTW Piggy!!!

Besides a change up...the knuckle curve is a great and easy pitch to learn...and requires no wrist/elbow snap to execute.

Good luck!

[Wilk5280]

If it's been awhile since you've pitched maybe you should just concentrate on throwing strikes and not worry so much about throwing sliders, k-curves, etc etc etc.

[rubba19]

Wow. Been years since my devastating 70+ fastball was used.

My uncle showed me the circle change in 1984. As long as you don't drastically change your motion, a change an effective pitch no matter how you hold the ball. I also did the three finger grip and pushed the ball back farther in my hand.

I remember Tom House, the old Rangers pitching coach, having his guys throw footballs to help with the slider, as the snap of letting go of a football to get a tight spiral is similar to a slider. When you are ready for that, this could be something to try. Helped me gain some consistency with it, although I left that pitch up too much. My fingers aren't long enough to snap off a strong curve, so that was my non-straight pitch for a while.

Something late in my pitching I learned (by accident) was to slightly turn over my hand inside as I released the ball. I kind of let in fall off instead of forcing it and it gave it some tailing motion late and acted as a "quicker" changeup. Worked on lefties as long as I didn't abuse.

Good luck. Remember, it's just like buying a house.

"LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION"

[Jimmydeicide]

Get A Wii and practice till your hearts content . Its easy to throw a curve ball whats all this fuss about damaging your arm.