Playstation HUB; Sony planning to take on XBox Live?

[Sport73]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... 0&Itemid=2

With greater access to content, developer support, quirky Japanese developers, and movies/music through Sony's global corporations, the PS3 may be prepping for a true role as the entertainment hub previously advertised.

I doubt they can match XBL in their first forray, and Microsoft will certainly counter with a major features upgrade when/if they do, but it's intriguing to see how this develops.

XBox 360 vs. PS3 power appears to be comparable, with the 360 coming first and being easier to program for (suggesting that we may see the PS3 'crippled' as the original XBox was by ports developed for a 'lesser' system. Microsoft's big advantage is XBL, but if Sony can match, and ADD to the service with feature-length films, music and more, it could turn into another big Sony win.

[sportdan30]

Personally, none of this matters until I hear a price on the system and how much their online service is going to cost. If it's over $500 for the system and $10 per month for the online service, then I'm not interested.

I suppose we won't have an idea what the cost will be until E3. I'm growing very tired of all the speculation.

[Kazuya]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... 0&Itemid=2

With greater access to content, developer support, quirky Japanese developers, and movies/music through Sony's global corporations, the PS3 may be prepping for a true role as the entertainment hub previously advertised.

I doubt they can match XBL in their first forray, and Microsoft will certainly counter with a major features upgrade when/if they do, but it's intriguing to see how this develops.

XBox 360 vs. PS3 power appears to be comparable, with the 360 coming first and being easier to program for (suggesting that we may see the PS3 'crippled' as the original XBox was by ports developed for a 'lesser' system. Microsoft's big advantage is XBL, but if Sony can match, and ADD to the service with feature-length films, music and more, it could turn into another big Sony win.

It's probably going to be a big Sony win anyway, especially after this flop of a launch (i.e. the launch and not the otherwise fantastic hardware). At least Peter Moore came out and said yesterday that you should be able to "walk into a store and buy one" in 3-4 weeks. That's much better than the June reports we read earlier.

One has to understand that Sony has the same advantage M$ had last time. M$ was able to look at the PS2, copy what was good and also upgrade it significantly... of course they had far more time than Sony is going to have... but still, Sony is now able to see the excellent interface and design of the 360 and copy and enhance what they see fit. Not to mention that Sony is certainly quite up to the task of slick hardware, as the PSP is every bit as impressive technologically as the 360 (for what they do of course). I don't really have any doubts the 360 is going to be impressive and wouldn't at all be surprised if they can trump Xbox live. Shameless copying is what makes the world go round. Most likely, they'll have a very strong facsimile of Xbox live which will fall a bit short, seeing as how M$ has been doing this for awhile now.

[Airdog]

Now all Sony has to do is tell people about it.

[Danimal]

I have serious doubts Sony can deliver and online experience the same quality as Live the first time out of the box, especially if they just started working on it recently.

[sportdan30]

Just my opinion, but I also think their online community will consist of more immature pricks than XBL. Then again, that's probably because they'll have a bigger fan base.

Guess that doesn't matter if you have a friends list.

[Dave]

I have serious doubts Sony can deliver and online experience the same quality as Live the first time out of the box, especially if they just started working on it recently.

I'm with you on this one. Software hasn't been a strength of Sony and as much as MS is maligned, they are a software company making a videogame and that really shows with the Live experience.

[JRod]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... 0&Itemid=2

With greater access to content, developer support, quirky Japanese developers, and movies/music through Sony's global corporations, the PS3 may be prepping for a true role as the entertainment hub previously advertised.

I doubt they can match XBL in their first forray, and Microsoft will certainly counter with a major features upgrade when/if they do, but it's intriguing to see how this develops.

XBox 360 vs. PS3 power appears to be comparable, with the 360 coming first and being easier to program for (suggesting that we may see the PS3 'crippled' as the original XBox was by ports developed for a 'lesser' system. Microsoft's big advantage is XBL, but if Sony can match, and ADD to the service with feature-length films, music and more, it could turn into another big Sony win.

It's probably going to be a big Sony win anyway, especially after this flop of a launch (i.e. the launch and not the otherwise fantastic hardware). At least Peter Moore came out and said yesterday that you should be able to "walk into a store and buy one" in 3-4 weeks. That's much better than the June reports we read earlier.

One has to understand that Sony has the same advantage M$ had last time. M$ was able to look at the PS2, copy what was good and also upgrade it significantly... of course they had far more time than Sony is going to have... but still, Sony is now able to see the excellent interface and design of the 360 and copy and enhance what they see fit. Not to mention that Sony is certainly quite up to the task of slick hardware, as the PSP is every bit as impressive technologically as the 360 (for what they do of course). I don't really have any doubts the 360 is going to be impressive and wouldn't at all be surprised if they can trump Xbox live. Shameless copying is what makes the world go round. Most likely, they'll have a very strong facsimile of Xbox live which will fall a bit short, seeing as how M$ has been doing this for awhile now.

With this logic, MS should have over taken Sony by now.


This is all hype. I think online competition would advance online gameing tenfold. If sony and ms had to compete imagine what goodies we'd see.

Sony is medium producer that is using its device to sell their medium. They want the world to use Blu-Ray and the PS3 is their way to steer the market in that direction. The PS3 will be successful but they better get it right. So far MS has done a lot of things right. The console launch wasn't all that great but round two starts with the mid-year game releases. Lastly Madden '07 could seal the deal for the PS3. If EA Sports comes out with a true next-gen madden and the PS3 isn't out yet, that could spell early trouble for the console. I've read they just released the final builds to developers so it looks like the PS3 will be here before fall.

[Kazuya]

With this logic, MS should have over taken Sony by now.

Not at all. That would imply that the best technology always win, which is clearly false. It simply is that competitors do incorporate the designs and advances of their predecessors into their products. They would be remiss to do otherwise.

This is all hype. I think online competition would advance online gameing tenfold. If sony and ms had to compete imagine what goodies we'd see.

I doubt Sony cares that much about it. They aren't stupid, they know that they have to have online functionality to stream media and for the business model they want to achieve -- not to mention just throwing a bone to gamers -- but as a tool to beat M$? Nah. They have more than enough ammo to obliterate M$ on brand name alone, without even throwing out the Blu Ray, the Metal Gears, Grand Theft Autos and Final Fantasys of the world.

Sony is medium producer that is using its device to sell their medium. They want the world to use Blu-Ray and the PS3 is their way to steer the market in that direction. The PS3 will be successful but they better get it right. So far MS has done a lot of things right. The console launch wasn't all that great but round two starts with the mid-year game releases. Lastly Madden '07 could seal the deal for the PS3. If EA Sports comes out with a true next-gen madden and the PS3 isn't out yet, that could spell early trouble for the console. I've read they just released the final builds to developers so it looks like the PS3 will be here before fall.

I agree about Sony's direction. But disagree about trouble... the only thing that can even remotely spell trouble for the PS3 is a too expensive price tag, or a disastrous to the nth degree launch. The PS3 is going to be so hyped it's going to be ridiculous... they are going to push the Blu-Ray, the games and most importantly just the name "PlayStation 3". Keep in mind, people thought the 360 was hyped and it sold about half of the PS2's launch. I'm telling you, the hype is going to be through the ceiling... they literally can't screw it up.

[pk500]

Sony will not lose this round of the console wars. It will not be in trouble.

Forget the botched 360 launch: Even if MS had a perfect launch, Sony would still win in the long run. It has WAY too much equity with the PlayStation brand and WAY too big of a lead in install base with the PS2 for it to lose this time.

MS may take a piece of Sony's advantage, but it won't surpass Sony. Not even close. Even if MS stays in the same area code in hardware sales in the U.S. and Europe, which is unlikely, Sony will absolutely DESTROY Microsoft in console sales in Japan.

Plus Sony isn't the novice here. It is a very successful gaming hardware and software company, second in gaming history only to Nintendo. You have to give the Big N the legacy edge due to its successful 8-bit and N64 systems and its absolute dominance in the handheld market.

Either way, Sony isn't going to f*ck this up. Even if the games are $70 and the console is $500, its hype and marketing machine -- as Kaz aptly pointed out -- will sell a ton of consoles to people who must have "the next, newest thing."

Come on, let's look in the mirror at ourselves at DSP: How many of us pre-ordered 360s and scoured the earth to get one if their pre-order didn't come in? And how many of us bought them because "everyone else was getting one" and we just couldn't resist the hype or temptation?

The answer is more of us than we think. And I also recall a few who were steadfast nine months ago about not buying a 360 at launch who quickly caved in late November or early December. That's not a criticism -- just an observation.

And it's going to happen all over again when the PS3 launches.

Take care,
PK

[wco81]

Just don't have a subscription to play online. Sell all the downloads you want to the suckers who'll pay but keep gaming free.

Now, I wonder if the target is really XBL or iTunes. Specifically, making sure that video downloads aren't controlled by someone else.

That's a good point about how bad Sony's software has been. But Sony quietly hired the guy who headed QuickTime software development for Apple this past December.

But how much can they push video downloads?

After all, they're going to try to launch Blu-Ray as the successor to the DVD against some formidable competitors so they still have a lot to gain by getting people to continue to buy movies on discs, not download them.

They have to choose one or the other. You can't expect people to buy Blu-Ray movie discs and download movies at the same time.

[GTHobbes]

If the PS3 launches with high-quality baseball, football and/or hockey games, and maybe a good racer and/or shooter mixed in, I won't care if it costs $1000 and the games cost $100. Life's too short for me to pass on a killer sports game because of its cost. What other reasons are there to work, if not to support my entertainment habits?

[TRI]

Sony will not lose this round of the console wars. It will not be in trouble.

Forget the botched 360 launch: Even if MS had a perfect launch, Sony would still win in the long run. It has WAY too much equity with the PlayStation brand and WAY too big of a lead in install base with the PS2 for it to lose this time.

MS may take a piece of Sony's advantage, but it won't surpass Sony. Not even close. Even if MS stays in the same area code in hardware sales in the U.S. and Europe, which is unlikely, Sony will absolutely DESTROY Microsoft in console sales in Japan.

Plus Sony isn't the novice here. It is a very successful gaming hardware and software company, second in gaming history only to Nintendo. You have to give the Big N the legacy edge due to its successful 8-bit and N64 systems and its absolute dominance in the handheld market.

Either way, Sony isn't going to f*ck this up. Even if the games are $70 and the console is $500, its hype and marketing machine -- as Kaz aptly pointed out -- will sell a ton of consoles to people who must have "the next, newest thing."

Come on, let's look in the mirror at ourselves at DSP: How many of us pre-ordered 360s and scoured the earth to get one if their pre-order didn't come in? And how many of us bought them because "everyone else was getting one" and we just couldn't resist the hype or temptation?

The answer is more of us than we think. And I also recall a few who were steadfast nine months ago about not buying a 360 at launch who quickly caved in late November or early December. That's not a criticism -- just an observation.

And it's going to happen all over again when the PS3 launches.

Take care,
PK

Sony may have the mind share with the Playstation brand for now but the problem is that the PS3 will not be profitable until 2008 or 2009. Sony's other business are not doing well at all and they are not as strong as they were decades ago. There was a very interesting article at ehomeupgrade that dicussed some of the challenges for Sony's new PS3. The first is longer load times with the blue ray drive that could be a problem. The big problem though with Sony is that they are lacking in providing good developer environment and middleware. They are way behind in providing the libraries needed for new routines. Just being Sony might be enough in the future.

[rayray00]

The part about iTunes/downloadable media that lots of folks seem to be overlooking is BANDWIDTH and STORAGE. Hell, it takes me way too long to download 700M 360 demos right now.

No way in hell I'd wait several hours to download a movie I was going to watch once. Maybe you could cue it up overnite or something, but still - unless you're on fiber at home, you're looking at HOURS to download a few gigs for a movie.

I'd assume the PS3 would have to have variable sizes of HD's or ship with a MONSTER size along the lines of 250G or more - plus if you roll in the DVR functionality that's been rumored, you're looking at needing even more space.

As far as the Live part goes, I'm sure they've been watching MS very closely and prob. have been developing someting for at least the past year or so, and as was stated above, they can clearly see what works and what folks use and like.

-Ray!!!

[TRI]

The part about iTunes/downloadable media that lots of folks seem to be overlooking is BANDWIDTH and STORAGE. Hell, it takes me way too long to download 700M 360 demos right now.

No way in hell I'd wait several hours to download a movie I was going to watch once. Maybe you could cue it up overnite or something, but still - unless you're on fiber at home, you're looking at HOURS to download a few gigs for a movie.

I'd assume the PS3 would have to have variable sizes of HD's or ship with a MONSTER size along the lines of 250G or more - plus if you roll in the DVR functionality that's been rumored, you're looking at needing even more space.

As far as the Live part goes, I'm sure they've been watching MS very closely and prob. have been developing someting for at least the past year or so, and as was stated above, they can clearly see what works and what folks use and like.

-Ray!!!

The price of memory is going to be much lower in the future and the size of the HDD will increase greatly over time. The speed for downloading will also likely increase significantly. Sure, today and over the next few years it will be time consuming to download large files like movies and HD games, but in the not too distant future it will likely become easier and cheaper than buying an expensive Blu Ray disk.

[Dave]

The price of memory is going to be much lower in the future and the size of the HDD will increase greatly over time. The speed for downloading will also likely increase significantly. Sure, today and over the next few years it will be time consuming to download large files like movies and HD games, but in the not too distant future it will likely become easier and cheaper than buying an expensive Blu Ray disk.

Is Sony expecting people to buy multiple HDD units over time? I don't care if 1 TB becomes standard issue 6 years after I bought my console, I just want to buy my console and play games, not tinker with it and upgrade.

Sony wants to extend the lifespan of consoles to about 10 years, so yes, by 2016 bandwidth and storage probably won't be an issue. But I doubt MS and Nintendo will just go along with Sony's 10-year plan if the 360 and Revolution are getting their *sses handed to them by the PS3.

[TRI]

The price of memory is going to be much lower in the future and the size of the HDD will increase greatly over time. The speed for downloading will also likely increase significantly. Sure, today and over the next few years it will be time consuming to download large files like movies and HD games, but in the not too distant future it will likely become easier and cheaper than buying an expensive Blu Ray disk.

Is Sony expecting people to buy multiple HDD units over time? I don't care if 1 TB becomes standard issue 6 years after I bought my console, I just want to buy my console and play games, not tinker with it and upgrade.

Sony wants to extend the lifespan of consoles to about 10 years, so yes, by 2016 bandwidth and storage probably won't be an issue. But I doubt MS and Nintendo will just go along with Sony's 10-year plan if the 360 and Revolution are getting their *sses handed to them by the PS3.

Memory prices are dropping and in five years even a 2000 GB HDD will probably be under $200.00 and the cost of buying a large HDD and downloading will be less than buying multiple Blu Ray disks. It is likely in the near future that the fomat will not be important anymore. There are PCs already out that are more powerful than the PS3 for gaming. If Sony has a ten year plan for the PS3 before releasing upgraded hardware, they will get crushed. The investment in Blu Ray is a huge waste of money because new technology will make the format a non issue. Most people will likely stick with DVD players.

[anchester]

If the PS3 launches with high-quality baseball, football and/or hockey games, and maybe a good racer and/or shooter mixed in, I won't care if it costs $1000 and the games cost $100. Life's too short for me to pass on a killer sports game because of its cost. What other reasons are there to work, if not to support my entertainment habits?

reasons on not getting it are that you can have the same games on a 360 w/ a better online service....no need to buy a ps3 for sports games. Only reason is if you want their exclusives (sure they have a few sports exclusives but they are not class leading).

[DivotMaker]

One has to understand that Sony has the same advantage M$ had last time. M$ was able to look at the PS2, copy what was good and also upgrade it significantly... of course they had far more time than Sony is going to have... but still, Sony is now able to see the excellent interface and design of the 360 and copy and enhance what they see fit.

From a hardware perspective, MS had VASTLY superior hardware to the PS2. You seem to assert that SONY is enjoying as much time as MS did in the prior consoles and this is simply not true. Sony finalized the CPU/GPU specs for PS3 well over 6 months ago. They will NOT enjoy a hardware gap in this generation that MS enjoyed in the previous one. The hardware of both machines is VERY comparable.

Plus, from an online interface perspective, Sony doesn't really have one to work with from the PS2 generation....at least one that can compete with XBL. While they may be touting grand plans to be a better service than XBL, frankly all I have to go on is their current interface and features and if I go by what I see versus what I hear, then I am going to need to see the output before I buy into the hype machine. After all, Sony is the same company who is claiming that "High definition gaming will begin when the PS3 launches".....

Not to mention that Sony is certainly quite up to the task of slick hardware, as the PSP is every bit as impressive technologically as the 360 (for what they do of course).

Really? Taking an existing platform and making is smaller? That is nothing new, not to mention the platform did come with some compromises in that it shipped underpowered because of battery concerns. Don't get me wrong, the PSP is a nice piece of work and technology. I guess I am just more impressed with the 360 because they were able to go from a single 733 mhz cpu/64 MB total system memory and a GeForce 3-like GPU to the 360 which has

THREE 3.2 Ghz CPU's working in parallel
512 MB system memory
500 mhz GPU with 48 unified shader pipelines

in a SMALLER PACKAGE than the previous XBOX....and to improve like they did on the interface and XBL....guess I find MS' accomplishment to have more "wow" factor, IMHO of course.

I don't really have any doubts the 360 is going to be impressive and wouldn't at all be surprised if they can trump Xbox live.

I guess you were referring to PS3 and if so, I could not disagree more. Sony has done NOTHING in the online play interface that even remotely competes with XBL (Original nor 360). I do not know why you have "no doubts" that Sony will trump this feature. If anything, I have nothing BUT doubt they can pull this off.

Shameless copying is what makes the world go round. Most likely, they'll have a very strong facsimile of Xbox live which will fall a bit short, seeing as how M$ has been doing this for awhile now.

You are certainly entitled to believe what you wish, but unless I missed something, I have not seen a single detail, feature list, nor screenshot of anything resembling a "strong facsimilie" of XBL. In fact, Sony better be extremely careful if they plan to "shamelessly copy" XBL because you can bet that MS will be watching their every move Sony makes just looking for patent infringement. At the end of the day, you seem awfully sure that Sony is going to do everything they claim. Pardon me if I don't buy a lick of their hype until I actually see it. Other than Backwards Compatibility and a less-than-auspicious launch, MS has delivered well beyond my personal expectations with the 360. I was so underwhelmed by the pre-release hype of the 360, I did not even bother to pre-order which has NEVER happened for a console launch for me personally. However, in the days leading up to Nov 22, I saw more and more evidence that I should have pre-ordered a 360 and was VERY lucky to get one on launch day. I will pre-order a PS3, maybe two of them because of what we all witnessed with Ebay and the 360 shortage. The PS3 is a VERY complex piece of hardware. I will be VERY surprised if they do not run into similar issues at launch like MS did, especially if they include the same tactical blunder of trying to launch worldwide, If MS had it to do over again, I can assure you they would launch in the US first, then Europe, then a partial launch in Japan. Ahh, hindsight truly is 20/20....

[dbdynsty25]

in a SMALLER PACKAGE than the previous XBOX.....

You do realize that the reason that is the case is because they took the power supply out of the system itself. Obviously this accomplishes two things...it lowers the heat inside the case and it allows you to make a smaller enclosure for the rest of the system. If you really think about it...the 360 probably takes up more space (volume, sq. footage, whatever) because of that fact.

[DivotMaker]

in a SMALLER PACKAGE than the previous XBOX.....

You do realize that the reason that is the case is because they took the power supply out of the system itself. Obviously this accomplishes two things...it lowers the heat inside the case and it allows you to make a smaller enclosure for the rest of the system. If you really think about it...the 360 probably takes up more space (volume, sq. footage, whatever) because of that fact.

Good point. I completely forgot about the power supply. Now that you mention it, I think you are going to start seeing power supply's like the 360 from here on olut with consoles as they become more powerful. As they become more powerful, they will have more trouble dealing with package size as well as heat issue....

I guess what impresses me the most is when I compare the package for the 360 versus my pc which has

One 3.2 Ghz CPU

One 256 MB ATI X850XT-PE

One GB ram

Five fans

2 DVD drives

One X-FI sound card

and the 360 runs circles around my PC in Tiger and other games in a vastly smaller package and in Hi Definition...

[Kazuya]

One has to understand that Sony has the same advantage M$ had last time. M$ was able to look at the PS2, copy what was good and also upgrade it significantly... of course they had far more time than Sony is going to have... but still, Sony is now able to see the excellent interface and design of the 360 and copy and enhance what they see fit.

From a hardware perspective, MS had VASTLY superior hardware to the PS2. You seem to assert that SONY is enjoying as much time as MS did in the prior consoles and this is simply not true. Sony finalized the CPU/GPU specs for PS3 well over 6 months ago. They will NOT enjoy a hardware gap in this generation that MS enjoyed in the previous one. The hardware of both machines is VERY comparable.

Plus, from an online interface perspective, Sony doesn't really have one to work with from the PS2 generation....at least one that can compete with XBL. While they may be touting grand plans to be a better service than XBL, frankly all I have to go on is their current interface and features and if I go by what I see versus what I hear, then I am going to need to see the output before I buy into the hype machine. After all, Sony is the same company who is claiming that "High definition gaming will begin when the PS3 launches".....

Not to mention that Sony is certainly quite up to the task of slick hardware, as the PSP is every bit as impressive technologically as the 360 (for what they do of course).

Really? Taking an existing platform and making is smaller? That is nothing new, not to mention the platform did come with some compromises in that it shipped underpowered because of battery concerns. Don't get me wrong, the PSP is a nice piece of work and technology. I guess I am just more impressed with the 360 because they were able to go from a single 733 mhz cpu/64 MB total system memory and a GeForce 3-like GPU to the 360 which has

THREE 3.2 Ghz CPU's working in parallel
512 MB system memory
500 mhz GPU with 48 unified shader pipelines

in a SMALLER PACKAGE than the previous XBOX....and to improve like they did on the interface and XBL....guess I find MS' accomplishment to have more "wow" factor, IMHO of course.

I don't really have any doubts the 360 is going to be impressive and wouldn't at all be surprised if they can trump Xbox live.

I guess you were referring to PS3 and if so, I could not disagree more. Sony has done NOTHING in the online play interface that even remotely competes with XBL (Original nor 360). I do not know why you have "no doubts" that Sony will trump this feature. If anything, I have nothing BUT doubt they can pull this off.

Shameless copying is what makes the world go round. Most likely, they'll have a very strong facsimile of Xbox live which will fall a bit short, seeing as how M$ has been doing this for awhile now.

You are certainly entitled to believe what you wish, but unless I missed something, I have not seen a single detail, feature list, nor screenshot of anything resembling a "strong facsimilie" of XBL. In fact, Sony better be extremely careful if they plan to "shamelessly copy" XBL because you can bet that MS will be watching their every move Sony makes just looking for patent infringement. At the end of the day, you seem awfully sure that Sony is going to do everything they claim. Pardon me if I don't buy a lick of their hype until I actually see it. Other than Backwards Compatibility and a less-than-auspicious launch, MS has delivered well beyond my personal expectations with the 360. I was so underwhelmed by the pre-release hype of the 360, I did not even bother to pre-order which has NEVER happened for a console launch for me personally. However, in the days leading up to Nov 22, I saw more and more evidence that I should have pre-ordered a 360 and was VERY lucky to get one on launch day. I will pre-order a PS3, maybe two of them because of what we all witnessed with Ebay and the 360 shortage. The PS3 is a VERY complex piece of hardware. I will be VERY surprised if they do not run into similar issues at launch like MS did, especially if they include the same tactical blunder of trying to launch worldwide, If MS had it to do over again, I can assure you they would launch in the US first, then Europe, then a partial launch in Japan. Ahh, hindsight truly is 20/20....

You should probably read a little bit closer before you go and reply, because you are misquoting me all over the place. I never said Sony has as much time as Microsoft. You even quoted MY quote, where I said "of course they had far more time than Sony is going to have". I was simply saying that they can look at the interface (such as the GUI) and take ideas from the 360. And if they did their design correctly, they absolutely could make *some* hardware changes even at this stage of the game with no problem at all. Highly unlikely they would want or need to though. I did throw the word design in there and I can see how that could be misconstrued, but I was mainly talking about software.

I also pretty obviously didn't say that I had "no doubts" that Sony would best Live, since I said immediately afterwards that I expected it to fall short. I said I had no doubts that it would be impressive. At the end of the day in 2006, the technology behind Xbox Live is simple simon stuff now. Where M$ has the advantage is in the experience in maintaining/enhancing the infrastructure and the bugs that come with it. XBox Live is nice, but it's no big deal... M$ is just the only ones doing it on a console. I have no doubts that Sony can do it right if they want to, I just don't know if they give a s***, since they are going to smash the competition one way or another.

[wco81]

Online features, interface and service isn't going to decide who gets marketshare. Online games for consoles are just a small percentage of the overall console market and that's not going to change in the next 5 years.

It's good for headlines and some buzz among the niche. iTunes generates a lot of big headline numbers but iTunes sales are a small percentage of overall music sales. Nor is iTunes Music Store responsible for iPod's market share edge, because most iPod users get most of their music from other sources.

I think Blu-Ray has a bigger potential to affect console sales, because HDTV sales are growing so much every year. HDTV owners will want high-def content and Blu-Ray may be one of the best sources for high-def content.

There will be more people looking for high-def movies than there will be people looking to play console games online.

[DivotMaker]

[You should probably read a little bit closer before you go and reply, because you are misquoting me all over the place. I never said Sony has as much time as Microsoft. You even quoted MY quote, where I said "of course they had far more time than Sony is going to have".

Yes, I see now after re-reading that you indicated that MS had more time than Sony. My bad. However, I don't believe I misread the rest of your comments to imply that I am "misquoting you all over the place".

[I was simply saying that they can look at the interface (such as the GUI) and take ideas from the 360.

If they actually did such a thing, they better have had started months ago, well before the 360 shipped. It is one thing to look at an interface and "get ideas", it is a different deal altogether to put such ideas into a working and reliable interface, which is something that MS has down pat and Sony has to build from scratch. I like MS to win this part of the next generation. I would, however be pleased as punch if Sony proved me wrong....

[And if they did their design correctly, they absolutely could make *some* hardware changes even at this stage of the game with no problem at all.

You DO realize your statement is very contradictory, don't you? If they designed the hardware correctly with enough forward thinking, then a revision after the 360 launched would not be needed. However, what you fail to realize is that any change at THIS stage of the game (or when the 360 shipped) would create a very expensive delay. You cannot just go in and change hardware like a PC when you are working with the console environment. The development environment is very tight with very little room for error. At the end of the day, the PS3 should be very capable and should compete well with the 360, however, I feel like the 360 is the better machine from a GPU perspective because it is much more future-proof than the RSX is from a technology and capabilities standpoint. Not to mention how challenging the development environment will be considering there are TEN CPU processes to try to parallel with the RSX GPU processes. With the 360, there are only 3 CPU's already working in parallel with a custom built GPU designed around those parallel CPU's.

I also pretty obviously didn't say that I had "no doubts" that Sony would best Live, since I said immediately afterwards that I expected it to fall short.

Um, actually you did say you had "no doubts". See underlined.

I don't really have any doubts the 360 is going to be impressive and wouldn't at all be surprised if they can trump Xbox live. Shameless copying is what makes the world go round. Most likely, they'll have a very strong facsimile of Xbox live which will fall a bit short, seeing as how M$ has been doing this for awhile now.

In summation, your comments were very contradictory as you state you have "no doubts" Sony can trump XBL, but they will copy XBL and fall short...guess I now know what you meant, but I think anyone can see how confusing your statements were.

At the end of the day in 2006, the technology behind Xbox Live is simple simon stuff now.

If I did not know better, it would seem you are doing your best to discredit the 360 and XBL. If XBL is simple simon stuff, please show me where there is any other online featureset for console users that even remotely compares? Sorry, but I could not disagree more. If it was as easy as you suggest, surely Sony would have something to compete with it now, right?

Where M$ has the advantage is in the experience in maintaining/enhancing the infrastructure and the bugs that come with it. XBox Live is nice, but it's no big deal... M$ is just the only ones doing it on a console.

No big deal? Yest MS is the only one doing it.....I am having a real hard time following your logic here. However, I am getting the impression that if it is Sony, they can and will do no wrong. That might happen, but it might not. Nothing is guaranteed these days. You are making some pretty broad assumptions with nothing to really back up Sony's claims. I'll stick with seeing it before I believe it.

I have no doubts that Sony can do it right if they want to, I just don't know if they give a s***, since they are going to smash the competition one way or another.

Sony can do it right if they choose to. However, unless they have COMPLETE control over EVERY aspect of every feature of the PS3, then nothing is guaranteed. I admire Sony and what they have accomplished for gaming. They are number one now and have been for some time. They may be number one for the forseeable future as well. I also admire what MS has done considering how late they were to the game originally. I also know they are in this for the long run like Sony. I guess we will see if Sony "smashes the competition one way or another". I guess I just don't buy into their hype machine like some people do.....

[Kazuya]

If they actually did such a thing, they better have had started months ago, well before the 360 shipped. It is one thing to look at an interface and "get ideas", it is a different deal altogether to put such ideas into a working and reliable interface, which is something that MS has down pat and Sony has to build from scratch. I like MS to win this part of the next generation. I would, however be pleased as punch if Sony proved me wrong....

I don't have any doubt that Sony could look at an Xbox 360 tomorrow, and then release a PS3 that rips off the exact same interface. Been there done that.

You DO realize your statement is very contradictory, don't you? If they designed the hardware correctly with enough forward thinking, then a revision after the 360 launched would not be needed. However, what you fail to realize is that any change at THIS stage of the game (or when the 360 shipped) would create a very expensive delay. You cannot just go in and change hardware like a PC when you are working with the console environment.

You absolutely can if you know what you're doing, been there done that. I have rigged s*** to meet finicky buyers demands like you wouldn't believe. I don't like to throw around credentials and argue technical jargon on message boards anymore, so all I'm going to say is that I'm very, very familiar with just about every aspect of console design, down to the last piece of solder on the board. There is nothing to be gained for me jabbering about it on a message board. I'm 100% sure I know what I'm talking about, and I don't have a problem saying that I'm sure you know what you're talking about too. I just burned out hard during the peak of flaming on Usenet in the AMD vs Intel wars. Now I try to keep technical comments general.

Um, actually you did say you had "no doubts". See underlined.

I don't really have any doubts the 360 is going to be impressive and wouldn't at all be surprised if they can trump Xbox live. Shameless copying is what makes the world go round. Most likely, they'll have a very strong facsimile of Xbox live which will fall a bit short, seeing as how M$ has been doing this for awhile now.

It's called a compound sentence... jeez. I say again, I pretty obviously didn't say that I had "no doubts" that Sony would best Live.

In summation, your comments were very contradictory as you state you have "no doubts" Sony can trump XBL, but they will copy XBL and fall short...guess I now know what you meant, but I think anyone can see how confusing your statements were.

In my summation, my comments are not at all contradictory, and you should indeed read more closely.

If I did not know better, it would seem you are doing your best to discredit the 360 and XBL. If XBL is simple simon stuff, please show me where there is any other online featureset for console users that even remotely compares? Sorry, but I could not disagree more. If it was as easy as you suggest, surely Sony would have something to compete with it now, right?

Why don't you show me a console who has cared about doing it? The only company to release a major console since the first Xbox is... Microsoft again! When the other guys (as if there were a ton of them) care about doing it, they will do it. It's old, simple Simon stuff.

No big deal? Yest MS is the only one doing it.....I am having a real hard time following your logic here. However, I am getting the impression that if it is Sony, they can and will do no wrong. That might happen, but it might not. Nothing is guaranteed these days. You are making some pretty broad assumptions with nothing to really back up Sony's claims. I'll stick with seeing it before I believe it.

Sony can and will do no wrong. Why anyone would think otherwise is a mystery to me. I'm not saying they deserve that status, but it's just the way it is. s*** the PS2 was the worst launch I ever saw, horrible games, shortages out the wazoo, hard drive came years late and was also worthless... yet they still broke all the records and beat the hell out of the competition. It's just the way it is. You'll have to learn to deal with it.

Sony can do it right if they choose to. However, unless they have COMPLETE control over EVERY aspect of every feature of the PS3, then nothing is guaranteed. I admire Sony and what they have accomplished for gaming. They are number one now and have been for some time. They may be number one for the forseeable future as well. I also admire what MS has done considering how late they were to the game originally. I also know they are in this for the long run like Sony. I guess we will see if Sony "smashes the competition one way or another". I guess I just don't buy into their hype machine like some people do.....

It is what it is.. trying to knock off Sony is like me and you trying to go into our basement and make a soda that knocks off Coke. Once your brand becomes generic for what you are doing (coke, kleenex, and now PlayStation) you becomes almost impossible to knock off.