Marv Levy returns to the Bills as VP of Football operations
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ScoopBrady
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pk500
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As a Bills' fan, I'm all for it. Levy still seems very sharp, and he and Wilson are like brothers.
Mularkey would be nuts not to use Levy's experience and mentoring. Say what you want, but Levy is one of the better coaches in NFL history.
Then again, if Mularkey stinks up the joint again next season, what's to say we won't see the 82-year-old Marv Levy roaming the sidelines again at the Ralph in 2007?
I wouldn't bet against it.
Here's a toast to Marv and his famous pre-game inspirational cry: "Where else would you rather be than right here, right now!"
I'm pumped that Marv is back. So is my wife. We revere Marv, as does nearly every Bills' fan. I still think the guy can do it, and his enthusiasm for the game and life is infectious as hell. Marv has to be an improvement over Donohoe.
Take care,
PK
Mularkey would be nuts not to use Levy's experience and mentoring. Say what you want, but Levy is one of the better coaches in NFL history.
Then again, if Mularkey stinks up the joint again next season, what's to say we won't see the 82-year-old Marv Levy roaming the sidelines again at the Ralph in 2007?
I wouldn't bet against it.
Here's a toast to Marv and his famous pre-game inspirational cry: "Where else would you rather be than right here, right now!"
I'm pumped that Marv is back. So is my wife. We revere Marv, as does nearly every Bills' fan. I still think the guy can do it, and his enthusiasm for the game and life is infectious as hell. Marv has to be an improvement over Donohoe.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
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Living here in Buffalo, most people here are not as optimistic as you PK.
Man the guy is 80 thats right 80 years old.He has been out of the game for eight years and alot has changed since he last coached the bills in a playoff loss at home to Jacksonville.
When he was here the Bills had many big name players and a lot of character and he kept it together for the most part.A great accomplishment considering all the egos.
One thing this team doesn't have now is character or a player that the fans could love(like Kelly,thomas, reed,Smith,Conlan,Bennet and so on).
I would say now that Spikes is the only player that fans here relate to and love.
I am sure he will try to bring in his type of players that he would want playing for him, but one problem with that is that he is not coaching them,dumbass Mullarkey is.
Wilson as always took the cheap and easy way out.He wouldn't fire Mullarkey with three years left on his contract(he hates paying when he fires somebody)criped he sued Wade phillips to get back his money after he was fired.
So what does he do, he brings in a good buddy who will keep the coach and makes him feel confortable and probably came cheap.No contract specific were released except for Wilson saying that Marv is here for as long as he wants to be.
I can't see any good or experienced offensive or defensive coordinator coming here with Mullarkey as the coach.I don't think he is that respected among the coaching community.Cripes Bill Cowher said when he was here last year he couldn't believe Mullarkey was on the sidelines coaching.
The guy was a friggin tight ends coach.
I liked Marv when he was here he was a good coach not a great one(he did lose four straight) and was severely outcoached the last three.One thing that he does great is surround himself with good people and delegate.Worked great as a head coach but who knows as a gm.
If anything can come good out of this he could teach dumbass mullarkey about playcalling and get rid of his trickery that he thinks is outcoaching his opponnet.Just maybe he will realise that the ball should go to Mcgahee at least 20 times every friggin game and also when it is first and goal inside the five.Ride you horse, man ride your horse.levy did it wth Thomas so maybe Mullarkey will learn from that.
I hope marv can succeed and not tarnish any of his memories that most fans have of him, but again he has never handled that side of the game.
Man the guy is 80 thats right 80 years old.He has been out of the game for eight years and alot has changed since he last coached the bills in a playoff loss at home to Jacksonville.
When he was here the Bills had many big name players and a lot of character and he kept it together for the most part.A great accomplishment considering all the egos.
One thing this team doesn't have now is character or a player that the fans could love(like Kelly,thomas, reed,Smith,Conlan,Bennet and so on).
I would say now that Spikes is the only player that fans here relate to and love.
I am sure he will try to bring in his type of players that he would want playing for him, but one problem with that is that he is not coaching them,dumbass Mullarkey is.
Wilson as always took the cheap and easy way out.He wouldn't fire Mullarkey with three years left on his contract(he hates paying when he fires somebody)criped he sued Wade phillips to get back his money after he was fired.
So what does he do, he brings in a good buddy who will keep the coach and makes him feel confortable and probably came cheap.No contract specific were released except for Wilson saying that Marv is here for as long as he wants to be.
I can't see any good or experienced offensive or defensive coordinator coming here with Mullarkey as the coach.I don't think he is that respected among the coaching community.Cripes Bill Cowher said when he was here last year he couldn't believe Mullarkey was on the sidelines coaching.
The guy was a friggin tight ends coach.
I liked Marv when he was here he was a good coach not a great one(he did lose four straight) and was severely outcoached the last three.One thing that he does great is surround himself with good people and delegate.Worked great as a head coach but who knows as a gm.
If anything can come good out of this he could teach dumbass mullarkey about playcalling and get rid of his trickery that he thinks is outcoaching his opponnet.Just maybe he will realise that the ball should go to Mcgahee at least 20 times every friggin game and also when it is first and goal inside the five.Ride you horse, man ride your horse.levy did it wth Thomas so maybe Mullarkey will learn from that.
I hope marv can succeed and not tarnish any of his memories that most fans have of him, but again he has never handled that side of the game.
Mularkey was the offensive coordinator in Pittsburgh for 3 years.marino wrote:I can't see any good or experienced offensive or defensive coordinator coming here with Mullarkey as the coach.I don't think he is that respected among the coaching community.Cripes Bill Cowher said when he was here last year he couldn't believe Mullarkey was on the sidelines coaching.The guy was a friggin tight ends coach.
I'd like to see the context of the Bill Cowher quote. That does not sound like something he would say at all. I can't imagine he would say anything but positive things about Mularkey, especially considering that the Bills were playing well and in the playoff hunt at the time of the game last year.
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pk500
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Marino:
The age thing is very overrated with Levy.
First, the guy is in GREAT shape. God rest his soul, but the very overweight John Butler was dead in his 50s. A great football man, but he's not doing any golden NFL drafts for the Bills or Chargers now.
Second, Levy even admitted that he formed a lot of his football management philosophy from working with Polian and Butler. You couldn't have two better mentors as a future GM.
Third, Levy will not be the "classic" GM like most other NFL teams and like Donohoe was. Modrak will play a major role in the front office, overseeing college scouting and pro personnel decisions. From what I've read, Ralph is going to surround Marv with deputies like Modrak to help him with football decisions, and consensus building always has been Levy's strength.
I see Marv as almost like a consultant with executive powers. He's going to make decisions and offer advice based on his tremendous experience, but I think he will rely on a close circle of associates much more than Donohoe did. Donohoe apparently was a lone wolf, an aloof presence, in the Bills' front office, from what I've read.
While I'm now confident about the state of the Bills' front office, I agree with you on Mularkey. Ralph made step one by axing Donohoe; he should have went all the way by firing Mularkey. The Bills won't see the fruits of Levy and Modrak's labors until they have a guy with a clue wearing the big chief's headset on the sidelines. And Mularkey sure as hell isn't that guy.
P.S. on Levy and the Super Bowls: If there was any of the four Super Bowls in which Levy was outcoached, it was the first one -- not the last three. The Bills were seven- to eight-point favorites against the Giants, coming off that 51-3 demolition of the Raiders in the AFC Championship, but Parcells devised a brilliant ball-control offensive scheme to keep the Bills' offense off the field. Few teams tried that approach that season against the Bills, instead relying on their defense to stop Buffalo's offense or trying to go toe-to-toe with their offense in a scoring contest against the Bills' offense. Meanwhile, Levy and the defensive staff had no answer for the Giants' ball control offense. So it was Levy who was severely outcoached in the first Bills' Bowl. In the last three Bowls, the Redskins and Cowboys were better teams than the Bills, period. You can't say that about the Giants.
Take care,
PK
The age thing is very overrated with Levy.
First, the guy is in GREAT shape. God rest his soul, but the very overweight John Butler was dead in his 50s. A great football man, but he's not doing any golden NFL drafts for the Bills or Chargers now.
Second, Levy even admitted that he formed a lot of his football management philosophy from working with Polian and Butler. You couldn't have two better mentors as a future GM.
Third, Levy will not be the "classic" GM like most other NFL teams and like Donohoe was. Modrak will play a major role in the front office, overseeing college scouting and pro personnel decisions. From what I've read, Ralph is going to surround Marv with deputies like Modrak to help him with football decisions, and consensus building always has been Levy's strength.
I see Marv as almost like a consultant with executive powers. He's going to make decisions and offer advice based on his tremendous experience, but I think he will rely on a close circle of associates much more than Donohoe did. Donohoe apparently was a lone wolf, an aloof presence, in the Bills' front office, from what I've read.
While I'm now confident about the state of the Bills' front office, I agree with you on Mularkey. Ralph made step one by axing Donohoe; he should have went all the way by firing Mularkey. The Bills won't see the fruits of Levy and Modrak's labors until they have a guy with a clue wearing the big chief's headset on the sidelines. And Mularkey sure as hell isn't that guy.
P.S. on Levy and the Super Bowls: If there was any of the four Super Bowls in which Levy was outcoached, it was the first one -- not the last three. The Bills were seven- to eight-point favorites against the Giants, coming off that 51-3 demolition of the Raiders in the AFC Championship, but Parcells devised a brilliant ball-control offensive scheme to keep the Bills' offense off the field. Few teams tried that approach that season against the Bills, instead relying on their defense to stop Buffalo's offense or trying to go toe-to-toe with their offense in a scoring contest against the Bills' offense. Meanwhile, Levy and the defensive staff had no answer for the Giants' ball control offense. So it was Levy who was severely outcoached in the first Bills' Bowl. In the last three Bowls, the Redskins and Cowboys were better teams than the Bills, period. You can't say that about the Giants.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
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My mistake, I forgot he was.I will see if I can find the quote.It was said on a local radio station here.I don't think he meant it as bad but more of surprise that he was a head coach.Leebo33 wrote:Mularkey was the offensive coordinator in Pittsburgh for 3 years.marino wrote:I can't see any good or experienced offensive or defensive coordinator coming here with Mullarkey as the coach.I don't think he is that respected among the coaching community.Cripes Bill Cowher said when he was here last year he couldn't believe Mullarkey was on the sidelines coaching.The guy was a friggin tight ends coach.
I'd like to see the context of the Bill Cowher quote. That does not sound like something he would say at all. I can't imagine he would say anything but positive things about Mularkey, especially considering that the Bills were playing well and in the playoff hunt at the time of the game last year.
I don't blame the Bills for firing the cocky prick Donahoe. I still don't forgive him for not bringing Rod Woodson back when he had two opportunities to do so and the only thing stopping it was Donahoe's subborness.
However, it seems like fans are being a little tough on Mularkey. They probably outperformed their talent last year and it's hurt the perception this season. I really didn't see Buffalo as much better than 8-8 coming in, so I guess they underperformed a bit.
Last year he was an offensive mastermind:
http://www.digitalsportspage.com/module ... t=mularkey
However, it seems like fans are being a little tough on Mularkey. They probably outperformed their talent last year and it's hurt the perception this season. I really didn't see Buffalo as much better than 8-8 coming in, so I guess they underperformed a bit.
Last year he was an offensive mastermind:
http://www.digitalsportspage.com/module ... t=mularkey
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pk500
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Leebo:
I don't think anyone was inferring in that post that Mularkey was an offensive mastermind. I think some of us, including me, thought all of the trick plays that he and Clements used were fun and refreshing.
Problem is, the rest of the NFL catches on to the Bills' use of those plays. And Mularkey has a real problem calling basic offense, such as putting the ball in Willis' gut inside the 10-yard-line instead of using fullback Daimon Shelton as some sort of secret pass-catching weapon out of the backfield deep in the red zone.
Look at Seattle: When the Seahawks are deep inside the red zone, they put the ball in Alexander's gut. I'm not saying Willis is as good as Alexander, but damn it, you run the ball inside the 5 on first down to get into the end zone unless you have Dave Meggett, Tiki Barber or Warrick Dunn in your backfield.
Take care,
PK
I don't think anyone was inferring in that post that Mularkey was an offensive mastermind. I think some of us, including me, thought all of the trick plays that he and Clements used were fun and refreshing.
Problem is, the rest of the NFL catches on to the Bills' use of those plays. And Mularkey has a real problem calling basic offense, such as putting the ball in Willis' gut inside the 10-yard-line instead of using fullback Daimon Shelton as some sort of secret pass-catching weapon out of the backfield deep in the red zone.
Look at Seattle: When the Seahawks are deep inside the red zone, they put the ball in Alexander's gut. I'm not saying Willis is as good as Alexander, but damn it, you run the ball inside the 5 on first down to get into the end zone unless you have Dave Meggett, Tiki Barber or Warrick Dunn in your backfield.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
XBL Gamertag: pk4425
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
XBL Gamertag: pk4425
Sully said, "Mike Mularkey was known for his trickery as Pittsburgh's offensive coordinator, so it makes sense that Tom Clements would fall into the same mold. They are two of the best offensive minds in football ."pk500 wrote:I don't think anyone was inferring in that post that Mularkey was an offensive mastermind.
Nobody disagreed with him.
I think Mularkey has all the tools to be a good NFL coach. If he made mistakes then he'll learn from them. If it isn't in Buffalo then somewhere else.
Another big step in the wrong direction by the Bills in my opinion. Marv is a nice enough guy but I think the game has passed him by at this point. I'm sure he could give us an excellent scouting report on the Bears but I'm expecting little else.
The bigger mistake was keeping Mularkey. In a year with a huge amount of coaching turnover and a lot of qualified candidates out there why not make the move now? Mularkey has made enough mind numbing calls this year to warrant the boot, not to mention the disaster at the QB position. Speaking of which, why would Mularkey start Losman this year? He can't afford another losing season to try out Losman so he has to go with Holcomb, a career backup and nothing more, to try and win some games. Even if Holcomb play well and the Bills win 8 or 9 games, then what?
The Bills needed to hire a GM and a headcoach with a plan and a strong personality. Either decide to give Losman a full audition and see what we have or cut bait and get the team moving in another direction.
I think alot of Bills fans are tired of buying false hope and you will see alot of small crowds for home games next year.
The bigger mistake was keeping Mularkey. In a year with a huge amount of coaching turnover and a lot of qualified candidates out there why not make the move now? Mularkey has made enough mind numbing calls this year to warrant the boot, not to mention the disaster at the QB position. Speaking of which, why would Mularkey start Losman this year? He can't afford another losing season to try out Losman so he has to go with Holcomb, a career backup and nothing more, to try and win some games. Even if Holcomb play well and the Bills win 8 or 9 games, then what?
The Bills needed to hire a GM and a headcoach with a plan and a strong personality. Either decide to give Losman a full audition and see what we have or cut bait and get the team moving in another direction.
I think alot of Bills fans are tired of buying false hope and you will see alot of small crowds for home games next year.
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pk500
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I don't understand the "game has passed Levy by" comments until we see some of his work. Donohoe is perceived as a workaholic who knows the game inside and out -- the ultimate NFL insider -- yet he didn't show much of a clue, did he?
I don't think this is a Matt Millen situation where a guy is pulled out of the broadcast booth with absolutely zero NFL coaching or front-office experience. Levy is one of the most experienced football guys around.
Yes, Marv didn't work under the cap, but longtime VP of Business Operations Jim Overdorf was the big mover behind most of Donohoe's smart moves to cut the Bills' cap numbers when Donohoe took over. Overdorf is still in Buffalo, so I bet he'll continue to do the number-crunching, letting Marv work more as an experienced consultant who builds consensus.
I'm not ready to put Levy out to pasture just because he's 80. Experience means something, and Levy still is sharp enough to use that experience.
We'll see.
P.S.: While the naming of Levy has split the Bills Backers, is there ANYONE who is even remotely happy that Mularkey is back? I sure as hell am not.
Take care,
PK
I don't think this is a Matt Millen situation where a guy is pulled out of the broadcast booth with absolutely zero NFL coaching or front-office experience. Levy is one of the most experienced football guys around.
Yes, Marv didn't work under the cap, but longtime VP of Business Operations Jim Overdorf was the big mover behind most of Donohoe's smart moves to cut the Bills' cap numbers when Donohoe took over. Overdorf is still in Buffalo, so I bet he'll continue to do the number-crunching, letting Marv work more as an experienced consultant who builds consensus.
I'm not ready to put Levy out to pasture just because he's 80. Experience means something, and Levy still is sharp enough to use that experience.
We'll see.
P.S.: While the naming of Levy has split the Bills Backers, is there ANYONE who is even remotely happy that Mularkey is back? I sure as hell am not.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
XBL Gamertag: pk4425
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
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Just for the heck of it, I looked up what the Patriots did this season deep inside opponent's territory on first down. They have Dillon and Pass to punch it in so its not like their backs are small.pk500 wrote:Look at Seattle: When the Seahawks are deep inside the red zone, they put the ball in Alexander's gut. I'm not saying Willis is as good as Alexander, but damn it, you run the ball inside the 5 on first down to get into the end zone unless you have Dave Meggett, Tiki Barber or Warrick Dunn in your backfield.
I intended to cut off at 5, but I thought the stats from the 6 were interesting:
1st and goal at the 6: 4 chances. All passes.
1st and goal at the 5: 4 chances. 2 runs, 2 passes
1st and goal at the 4: 1 chance. 1 run
1st and goal at the 3: 2 chances. 1 pass, 1 run
1st and goal at the 2: 2 chances. 1 pass, 1 run
1st and goal at the 1: 4 chances. 3 runs, 1 pass
It seems to me that the best coach in the NFL is mixing it up inside/around the 5 on first down.
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pk500
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And Joe Paterno, too.Sully wrote:Hey, the game has passed Levy by...
Just like the game passed Dick Vermeil and Joe Gibbs.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
XBL Gamertag: pk4425
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
XBL Gamertag: pk4425
2005 Billsmarino wrote:Well he also has tom Brady and not holcomb or losman at qb, and no dumbass Mullarkey calling the fake to mcgahee and pass to Shelton.
1st and goal at the 6: 4 chances. 2 passes, 2 runs.
1st and goal at the 5: 2 chances. 2 runs
1st and goal at the 4: 1 chance. 1 run
1st and goal at the 3: 3 chances. 2 passes (one was a spike), 1 run
1st and goal at the 2: 1 chance. 1 pass
1st and goal at the 1: 7 chances. 6 runs, 1 pass
3 pass attempts (not counting a spike to stop the clock) all season inside the 5 on first and goal. Big deal.
BTW, I just think coaches are fired too quickly in the NFL these days. Here are some of the records during the first two years of coaches with *multiple* Super Bowl rings. Can you guess who they are? I don't think they'd even make it that long today:
6-22
8-24
8-24
8-12
13-19
12-19-1
Are you counting the 1st and goal at the Miami 3 and the first play was a pass that was intercepted.I would still say at least on first down you run the ball.
Well unfortunately this is a win now league with free agency and going from 9-7 to 5-11 is the opposite direction the Bills should be going.They gave Gregg williams three years and he did nothing too.
I don't know Lewis and Fox have turned it around pretty quickly.So has Mora in atlanta.Nick saban tooka 4-12 team to a 9-7 record winning the last six in a row.I think two years is sufficient now a days for a head coach in the NFL
Well unfortunately this is a win now league with free agency and going from 9-7 to 5-11 is the opposite direction the Bills should be going.They gave Gregg williams three years and he did nothing too.
I don't know Lewis and Fox have turned it around pretty quickly.So has Mora in atlanta.Nick saban tooka 4-12 team to a 9-7 record winning the last six in a row.I think two years is sufficient now a days for a head coach in the NFL
Last edited by marino on Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wow. Take your pick.Bakes wrote:In a year with a huge amount of coaching turnover and a lot of qualified candidates out there why not make the move now?
Mularkey's record last 2 years: 14-18
Capers: 9-23
Turner: 9-23
Mariucci: 10-17
Sherman: 14-18
Tice: 17-15
Haslett: 11-21
Martz: 10-11
If the ultimate benchmark for a coach is wins then I don't see much of an upgrade with any of these guys besides maybe Sherman. Unless you are willing to hand over the reigns to Mike Tice *shudders*.
