R.I.P. those affected by the school shooting in CT

[Inuyasha]

Nm. Deleted

[Teal]

Not at my house. My boys love guns, any guns, and will make anything into a gun, if they can't find one-a banana, a stick...hey, an empty wrapping paper roll makes a fantastic bazooka!

And I absolutely encourage it...though I hardly have to. My boys both had BB guns by the time they were 4, and I take them hunting with me every year. This will be Tyler's year to fire my 30/30 for the first time. He's 12. I will teach them gun safety, proper cleaning, and the methods to hit their targets. Why? Because I want them to know how to use them. I want them to know the weight and significance of wielding a gun. Guns aren't going anywhere, Rob is right on that point. So why am I opposed to any gun ban whatsoever? Because I don't want a politician with an agenda making up definitions like 'assault weapon' and 'semi-automatic' (read: not automatic). Because those politicians want power, not safety. They use these awful tragedies as pawns for their power games. We don't tell the AAA they 'have blood on their hands' when drunk drivers kill someone...why do people do that to the NRA, an organization I'm a proud member of? It makes zero sense.

I'm simply amazed at how the media in this country can so quickly change the narrative from one idiot shooting up a school in CT, or a theater in Aurora, into gun control so quickly, and so efficiently. Passing laws only works with the law-abiders. The law-breakers, like the idiot in CT, have already broken every gun law in order to do what they have done...so why would one more law 'fix' anything?

I say arm the teachers, or put armed guards in the schools. It's not preferrable to just not needing them, but that's not the world we live in any longer. We must deal with reality...and 'gun control' isn't it.

[dbdynsty25]

We don't tell the AAA they 'have blood on their hands' when drunk drivers kill someone...why do people do that to the NRA, an organization I'm a proud member of? It makes zero sense.

Wait they don't? Bullsh*t. Anytime something happens that can be construed as tragic, the powers that be use that event to go anti-whatever is convenient. Guns, drugs, alcohol, whatever...all fair game. That's America's forte. Doesn't make it right...just means that all areas of our society are fair game.

[Danimal]

Do you hunt with a semi automatic weapon that can use a magazine that holds 30 rounds? I ask this is all seriousness because I have a lot of friends who hunt and target shoot. I don't know a single one who uses a SA Rifle.

So whats the primary use for such a weapon, using it at a gun range? I have a friend who is a gun smith (I think that is the right term) and collector. Can conceal carrying the whole nine yards. He doesn't own any semi automatic rifles and he owns a lot of guns and bows. I really don't understand the reason to own such a weapon.

I read last week that we already have technology that could make it so a gun wouldn't fire unless the owner was using it. I honestly thought that was the stuff of movies but if the tech is real why isn't it in place?

[Feanor]

He was using a high capacity magazine which has a high failure rate - and it failed in this instance..... the lower capacity magazines have a much much lower failure rate and you can unload, reload fast...

In this case, the high capacity magazine likely saved lives since it disabled the gun.

Do you have a source for this because I can't find anything about it online. According to this Lanza used at least three 30 bullet magazines and he "jungle-taped" two of them together in a rampage that lasted only five minutes, but still left 26 people dead.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... amage.html

I'm simply amazed at how the media in this country can so quickly change the narrative from one idiot shooting up a school in CT, or a theater in Aurora, into gun control so quickly, and so efficiently. Passing laws only works with the law-abiders. The law-breakers, like the idiot in CT, have already broken every gun law in order to do what they have done...so why would one more law 'fix' anything?

I say arm the teachers, or put armed guards in the schools. It's not preferrable to just not needing them, but that's not the world we live in any longer. We must deal with reality...and 'gun control' isn't it.

It's not just the media who can see that it's not one shooter in Aurora and one in CT. There have been seventeen mass shootings in 2012 including today's one in PA, and the year's not over yet. Malls, and movie theaters, and schools and workplaces and Sikh temples and churches have all been targeted and having armed guards in every public space is just not practical.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/171774/fi ... 12-84-dead

[pk500]

I'm dumbfounded that gun control advocates are stunned at the NRA response to the Newtown shootings. What did they expect? The NRA endorsing even a smidge of gun control?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... ovies?lite

Guns ALWAYS will be defended in Wayne's World. The NRA preaching gun control would be almost as surreal as MADD promoting teen keg parties.

[Jackdog]

I'm dumbfounded that gun control advocates are stunned at the NRA response to the Newtown shootings. What did they expect? The NRA endorsing even a smidge of gun control?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... ovies?lite

Guns ALWAYS will be defended in Wayne's World. The NRA preaching gun control would be almost as surreal as MADD promoting teen keg parties.

I'm not accusing you of this,but isn't it interesting how this works?

In 2000 President Clinton asked for basically the same thing the NRA did today.
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323

Marking the first anniversary of the shooting deaths at Columbine High School, President Clinton announced $120 million in new federal grants Saturday to place more police officers in schools and help even the youngest kids cope with their problems.

"In our national struggle against youth violence we must not fail our children; our future depends on it," the president said in his weekly radio address.

Clinton also unveiled the $60-million fifth round of funding for "COPS in School," a Justice Department program that helps pay the costs of placing police officers in schools to help make them safer for students and teachers. The money will be used to provide 452 officers in schools in more than 220 communities.

This program still exist? If not,why? I talked to parents about this today. All 16 of them said they would be happy to pay for the officers with a designated fund from school. We have school fund raisers for new uniforms,sports trips,why not trained protection for our kids?

[Teal]

The Bushmaster .223 is a hunting rifle. It is no different in any way from any other semi automatic hunting rifle. My Winchester 30/30 holds 17 rounds. I have every intention of purchasing the Bushmaster after Christmas (provided I can find one...they're selling like hot cakes at the moment), because when you're hunting bigger, jittery game, reloading is a calculated risk. Make too much noise, and you've lost your quarry. Sure, my 17 round Winchester stores enough rounds for that, but if I run up on a momma bear, I don't have time to cock a single round at a time into the chamber. That's one great purpose of the semi autos. A pistol could do in a pinch, but you have to drop the rifle and unholster the sidearm. So having a 30 round semi auto rifle takes care of both in one.

And YET...none of that is the real issue. The real issue is politicians taking a tragedy and pulling this geriatric rabbit out of the same old hat they continually pull it out of. Connecticut isn't about a gun...it's about a sick bastard idiot.

[Teal]

Please...read.
http://bradtaylorbooks.com/2012/12/a-si ... t-weapons/

[Danimal]

I'm dumbfounded that gun control advocates are stunned at the NRA response to the Newtown shootings. What did they expect? The NRA endorsing even a smidge of gun control?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... ovies?lite

Guns ALWAYS will be defended in Wayne's World. The NRA preaching gun control would be almost as surreal as MADD promoting teen keg parties.

I agree with you but I have a different take. I don't think the NRA did themselves any favors today.

They had a week to come out and look strong and make a good statement. Then you deliver that in what can only be called an audible press release since you didn't field any questions. This is an emotional charged issue right now and they needed to look strong and they looked anything but. If you are a person who wants better gun control laws today's press conference should be exactly what you wanted to hear.

[pk500]

The protesters were a parallel narrative to the NRA press conference. Not a great day for the staunchest defenders of the Second Amendment in America.

[pk500]

Double post. Sorry.

[Danimal]

I don't think it's a great day for anyone that we even need to have this debate to be honest.

[F308GTB]

Sure, my 17 round Winchester stores enough rounds for that, but if I run up on a momma bear, I don't have time to cock a single round at a time into the chamber. That's one great purpose of the semi autos. A pistol could do in a pinch, but you have to drop the rifle and unholster the sidearm. So having a 30 round semi auto rifle takes care of both in one.

I'm probably more likely to get a home invasion, car jacked, robbed, etc in the big bad streets of a major metropolitan area than you are in coming across a momma bear. I don't own a gun - I figure even with these threats, the probability something happens to me is low. I have a higher probability being injured or killed riding my bike or driving my car, yet I don't stop those activities.

The likelihood of coming across a bear in Alabama is low, really low. Their population is small and spread over several hundred square miles. Plus, from my understanding you'll need to lawyer up if you shoot one as state laws are strict against the harming of them. I'd sooner turn tail and run away with dirty shorts than get man-raped in the county pokey. If you want to protect yourself from momma bear throw some junk food at her. She may even become your new best friend.

[Diablo25]

I'd sooner turn tail and run away with dirty shorts than get man-raped in the county pokey.

[Teal]

Sure, my 17 round Winchester stores enough rounds for that, but if I run up on a momma bear, I don't have time to cock a single round at a time into the chamber. That's one great purpose of the semi autos. A pistol could do in a pinch, but you have to drop the rifle and unholster the sidearm. So having a 30 round semi auto rifle takes care of both in one.

I'm probably more likely to get a home invasion, car jacked, robbed, etc in the big bad streets of a major metropolitan area than you are in coming across a momma bear. I don't own a gun - I figure even with these threats, the probability something happens to me is low. I have a higher probability being injured or killed riding my bike or driving my car, yet I don't stop those activities.

The likelihood of coming across a bear in Alabama is low, really low. Their population is small and spread over several hundred square miles. Plus, from my understanding you'll need to lawyer up if you shoot one as state laws are strict against the harming of them. I'd sooner turn tail and run away with dirty shorts than get man-raped in the county pokey. If you want to protect yourself from momma bear throw some junk food at her. She may even become your new best friend.

What made you think I never leave the state to hunt??? Besides, as I said, hunting isn't the point of the 2nd Amendment. To be honest, the REAL reason for the 2nd Amendment is such that I actually understand why politicians want to limit them. And you clearly you've never run up on a momma bear...

[Teal]

The protesters were a parallel narrative to the NRA press conference. Not a great day for the staunchest defenders of the Second Amendment in America.

The Code Pink idiots??? Parallel universe, more likely...

[pk500]

The protesters were a parallel narrative to the NRA press conference. Not a great day for the staunchest defenders of the Second Amendment in America.

The Code Pink idiots??? Parallel universe, more likely...

The Code Pink "idiots" captured almost as much post-press conference ink and air time as La Pierre. Their goal was accomplished.

[Feanor]

I'm dumbfounded that gun control advocates are stunned at the NRA response to the Newtown shootings. What did they expect? The NRA endorsing even a smidge of gun control?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12 ... ovies?lite

Guns ALWAYS will be defended in Wayne's World. The NRA preaching gun control would be almost as surreal as MADD promoting teen keg parties.

I think armed guards in American schools is an idea worth considering, although Neil Gardner was unable to prevent the Columbine killers from murdering their classmates. So the idea that one guard with a gun will stop these massacres from happening is already known to be false.

But the NRA press conference was pretty bizarre. Videogames like Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse are to blame... really?

[toonarmy]

A police officer in every school is ludicrous and a waste of money. It's almost is moronic as thinking that school personnel need to be armed (probably one of the more irresponsible things I've read in the news this past week, especially given how many people who work in schools are mentally unstable themselves). The odds of a school getting shot up are still insanely small. Even if there is an officer there is no guarantee that he will be able to stop someone with several automatic weapons. Many high schools and middle schools already have officers anyhow. Putting an officer in every elementary school is plain dumb. 99.9% of these officers are going to sit around doing absolutely nothing since there is nothing for them to do and no threat. I'm sure some people will say that it is worth it if just one kid is saved by having officers in every school. Yeah, that's all well and good but our society runs on a cost-benefit basis, and spending hundreds of millions of dollars on officers that have almost no chance of encountering what they are hired to do is not a good use of resources. Then you have to factor in the fact that law enforcement officials are in short supply in many regions of the country, not to mention the ones that do exist are needed to actually go after real threats.

Fact is we live in a society that loves guns and violence. Guns, videogames, tv, movies, etc. are not going away any time soon. Nor should they. This is a free society. In a nation of 300+ million people sometimes people are going to flip their lid and do bad things. This country does not need to overreact and act is if there is a widespread problem every time something rare happens. The people I have seen on TV debating this issue, on both sides, need to step back and take a deep breath and show some reason. The laws are fine as is. Sometimes the prescription can be worse than the disease and invite in worse problems.

[Jackdog]

But the NRA press conference was pretty bizarre. Videogames like Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse are to blame... really?

The very people who say violent films and video games had no bearing on the Sandy Hook shootings, believe a video caused Benghazi. If what one sees on TV and in movies has no affect on us why do smart businessmen pay mountains of dollars to advertise their goods and services on TV and at the movies? Why does the government itself buy advertising? As a gun owner,gamer and a person that enjoys action flicks, I have to admit commercials and reviews peaked my interest into buying but I've never had the inclination to do anything evil because of my hobbies. A mentally unstable person like the shooter in CT....maybe. In a tweet this weekend, Obama aide David Axelrod wrote, "In NFL post-game: an ad for shoot ‘em up video game. All for curbing weapons of war. But shouldn't we also quit marketing murder as a game?” It looks like all these things are on the politicians plate in the wake of this tragedy.

[Jackdog]

Fact is we live in a society that loves guns and violence. Guns, videogames, tv, movies, etc. are not going away any time soon. Nor should they. This is a free society. In a nation of 300+ million people sometimes people are going to flip their lid and do bad things. This country does not need to overreact and act is if there is a widespread problem every time something rare happens. The people I have seen on TV debating this issue, on both sides, need to step back and take a deep breath and show some reason. The laws are fine as is. Sometimes the prescription can be worse than the disease and invite in worse problems.

+1

[Feanor]

But the NRA press conference was pretty bizarre. Videogames like Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse are to blame... really?

The very people who say violent films and video games had no bearing on the Sandy Hook shootings, believe a video caused Benghazi. If what one sees on TV and in movies has no affect on us why do smart businessmen pay mountains of dollars to advertise their goods and services on TV and at the movies? Why does the government itself buy advertising? As a gun owner,gamer and a person that enjoys action flicks, I have to admit commercials and reviews peaked my interest into buying but I've never had the inclination to do anything evil because of my hobbies. A mentally unstable person like the shooter in CT....maybe. In a tweet this weekend, Obama aide David Axelrod wrote, "In NFL post-game: an ad for shoot ‘em up video game. All for curbing weapons of war. But shouldn't we also quit marketing murder as a game?” It looks like all these things are on the politicians plate in the wake of this tragedy.

Splatterhouse amd Mortal Kombat aren't even about shooting or using guns. The NRA has to desearately reach for scapegoats because it can't ever admit that the easier it is for people to get guns, the more people will be shot with guns.

[Slumberland]

I thought this article made some good points, including (but not limited to) how people throw around the terms semi-automatic, automatic, and assault with no real understanding of what they actually mean:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/ ... n-control/

Is there something to a "gun-free zone" being a hunting ground for the sick-minded where they know they'll encounter no resistance? A little uncertainty can be a good thing. It might be why 50% of burglaries in England are "hot" burglaries (home invasions in other words) as opposed to 10% in the U.S.

And yet Columbine apparently had armed guards.

[Feanor]

Fact is we live in a society that loves guns and violence. Guns, videogames, tv, movies, etc. are not going away any time soon. Nor should they. This is a free society. In a nation of 300+ million people sometimes people are going to flip their lid and do bad things. This country does not need to overreact and act is if there is a widespread problem every time something rare happens. The people I have seen on TV debating this issue, on both sides, need to step back and take a deep breath and show some reason. The laws are fine as is. Sometimes the prescription can be worse than the disease and invite in worse problems.

How many mass shootings do there need to be in a calendar year before they can't be called rare? Cause we're already up to 17 in 2012. And death by firearm in this country is projected to be less rare than being killed in an auto accident in a few years from now.



And the laws you claim are fine actually vary a lot by state, and the states with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... ths/69354/

Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation. Though the sample sizes are small, we find substantial negative correlations between firearm deaths and states that ban assault weapons (-.45), require trigger locks (-.42), and mandate safe storage requirements for guns (-.48).

While the causes of individual acts of mass violence always differ, our analysis shows fatal gun violence is less likely to occur in richer states with more post-industrial knowledge economies, higher levels of college graduates, and tighter gun laws. Factors like drug use, stress levels, and mental illness are much less significant than might be assumed.