Statement from ESPN Videogames regarding ESPN NFL 2K5 price

pacuca · Post by **pacuca** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:14 pm

http://forums.operationsports.com/ubbth ... ost1054714

Interesting. Should I pre-order now?

pacuca

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:24 pm

My pre-order was confirmed today by EB at $19.99. If they ask for more dough upon pickup, I'm not paying. That's bait-and-switch.

You pay the advertised price. They lose if it's their mistake.

Take care,
PK

skidmark · Post by **skidmark** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:27 pm

I'm guessing the "error" was simply that they released the price point too early.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:29 pm

It sounds like some people are finding that their local Gamestops are quoting the $20 price at retail while EB Games have not.

That would be my preference, to pick it up locally.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:36 pm

I called my local Gamestop and they quoted a $19.99 price.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:40 pm

"Erroneously posted a price" is different from "posted an erroneous price." Sounds like a timing mistake rather than a pricing one.

marino · Post by **marino** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:40 pm

Gamestop.com now shows espn releasing july 27th for 19.99. Only seven more weeks to go.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:53 pm

Like the others have mentioned they have it in the stores for $19.99. They have yet to update the date but I am sure that will happen tomorrow since the website updated today.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:56 pm

This five year Madden/2K rivalry sure has been entertaining. It's starting to rivals Yankees/Red Sox in my book.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:07 pm

Slumberland wrote:This five year Madden/2K rivalry sure has been entertaining. It's starting to rivals Yankees/Red Sox in my book.

Hmm can we change that to a different rivalry? The last thing Sega needs is the curse of the Bambino going against them.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:36 pm

marino wrote:Gamestop.com now shows espn releasing july 27th for 19.99. Only seven more weeks to go.

Really? I still see August 24 for both:

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=210590

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:05 pm

It's clear that it's not an error. ESPN is taking a new strategy to entice gamers which will likely include one of the following:

1. Game is $19.99, but you pay $30 for a one year membership to ESPN Sports Online. This fee gives you access to the online leagues etc.

2. Game is $19.99, and you can play online and in tournaments/leagues, but you also have the option of paying (undisclosed sum) for roster updates/additional video Sportscenter content etc.

3. Game is $19.99. Regular Online play and downloads are free as with last year. You can, however, pay a fee of >$60 for an ESPN NFL Annual Pass, which will provide ESPN 2k6 for free, along with league play etc.

#3 is the model that I advocated to a contact at EA not long ago...Sports gamers buy the game every year, but you (ESPN, EA etc.) run the risk that they will be enticed by a competitor's product and switch...So, every year you're starting from scratch trying to beat the competition. A subscription model that gives you the game, next year's game, and additional services (online leagues etc.) would GUARANTEE customer loyalty (you've already got their money), improve cashflow (you get $80 or more NOW, rather than $50 and $50 a year apart) thereby funding the next year's development; and you establish a relationship with your customers that goes beyond their picking the game off the shelf (increased revenue opportunities). By setting a low purchase price ($19.99) you get as many gamers as are even remotely interested to TRY your service, then you hook them.

In my opinion, game companies are throwing money/opportunity away but not doing this. Also, they could create tie-ins with other games: i.e. an Entire ESPN SportsPass would cost $XXX but give you 2 years of ALL the games, plus online play, downloads etc.

This is as it should be.

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:11 pm

"n my opinion, game companies are throwing money/opportunity away but not doing this. Also, they could create tie-ins with other games: i.e. an Entire ESPN SportsPass would cost $XXX but give you 2 years of ALL the games, plus online play, downloads etc. "

great idea. Do you think that gamers would be willing to pay the $ and give 1 company that type of commitment? how does the casual gamer fit in? do enough people buy the 2 year to make up for the $30 loss when a casual gamer makes the purchase?

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:12 pm

"1. Game is $19.99, but you pay $30 for a one year membership to ESPN Sports Online. This fee gives you access to the online leagues etc."

This is what I suspected as soon as I heard of the new price. Unfortunately, this is one of the main reasons I am looking forward to the game.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:28 pm

Sudz wrote:
great idea. Do you think that gamers would be willing to pay the $ and give 1 company that type of commitment? how does the casual gamer fit in? do enogh people buy the 2 year to make up for the $30 loss when a casual gamer makes the peurchase?

In my opinion, the best way to institute it isn't to go for a $19.99 price point, unless you're sure that your online component/extras are so compelling that you'll get a 60% or better subscription rate. However, pressing CD's/DVD's is cheap, there is money to be made at $19.99 if you sell a lot more units than you did/would at $50. My idea (originally) was to offer both: Game at $35.00 for average gamer. Game for Free to gamer who paid the subscription fee upfront. The $35 is low enough to hopefully entice those that might not normally give your game a shot, you're getting more than that from the rest of the gamers who either get the subscription up front, or add it after paying their $35 and falling in love with the title.

The current system of $50 per annum was instituted BEFORE online play, at a time when EA recognized that they could 'milk' the market with modest product updates on an annual basis. Everyone else followed their model, and it worked. BUT, it's time for a new model. Everyone complains about how some years games are nothing more than roster updates. Developers are pushed to work on an annual cycle rather than improving their games more 'organically' as ideas hit them (and don't have the TIME to flesh out those ideas without staring down a 30-day release window). A model that rewards customer loyalty, begins to cloud the entire concept of NFL 2k5/2k6/2k7 in favor of ESPN NFL 1.0/1.1/1.2 that is updated/altered and dramatically improved over time (Even over generations of hardware) and integrated with an online model that provides real value...I'd pay.

Think of it this way. If someone came to you and said "For $80, I'll give you this year's game, next year's game, and fully-supported online leagues. Or you can pay $50 now and $50 next year ($100 total) and get less, which do you prefer?"

Or, "For $19.99 and a monthly fee of $5 ($60.00 per year) I'll give you EVERY release of the game (regardles of platform: Xbox, Xbox Next, Xbox NEXT Next), online play, integrated tournaments, and an update schedule for game improvements that isn't tied to the Calendar, what do you think?"

There is an opportunity to offer an alternative model. That's all I'm saying.

Is this what SEGA is doing? Probably not. Most likely their just going to have you pay extra for the online league play and use the $19.99 price point to expose people to the game against the juggernaut that is Madden.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:28 pm

Parker wrote:"1. Game is $19.99, but you pay $30 for a one year membership to ESPN Sports Online. This fee gives you access to the online leagues etc."

This is what I suspected as soon as I heard of the new price. Unfortunately, this is one of the main reasons I am looking forward to the game.

That is all just speculation.

To me it doesn't make sense for a company who is clearly #2 in sales year after year to start charging their customers for online play.

But I guess we will see soon enough.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:28 pm

If Sega/VC expect to make up for the price cut from people playing online or paying for online leauges, they will be disappointed.

Only a fraction of the people who buys games will play online, much les in online leagues. It's not a sound business model to expect to recoup revenues from online gaming.

Chances are better that they will recoup lower revenues from the lower price by selling more copies.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:34 pm

It will still take time to gain popularity and improve technically, but Sega's leagues will have a better chance of taking off if they are actually fully integrated into the game, unlike XSN. Of course, you can still access data on the website, but setting up and participating in leagues needs to be done entirely within the game's interface. Also, the features related to the online living leagues sounds more exciting than XSN's leagues, which are more limited in features and scope.

But fantasy sports leagues have really taken off, so I see no reason why companies can't take advantage of this in their games, as long as they are able to come close to the experience than non-video game leagues provide.

skidmark · Post by **skidmark** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:57 pm

Its all about an online draft... the first company to do this right will open the door for online franchises which could be very big in the future.

I agree with wco though... this years game is hardly the time to expect to be able to recoup any cost through online sales as it is a small fraction of the customer base .

In an attempt for success, you'd almost have to offer the online leagues as an entirely different mmo game "based on the xxx engine"... build a gaming community apart from the sales of your annual game that allow people to setup leagues and such inside of it.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:20 pm

Where do you guys get that they are going to charge for online. Is there an official post or rumor out there?

Could it just be an attempt to gain a bigger market sure.

I do agree with Sport, and that another model for selling games could do well. I don't know what ESPN is up to but if last year was any indication they have not had the success in sales that they have had in reviews and hype. If they charge for online leagues, updates and other content I think then online gaming will forever change.

Heck online gaming has already turned toward pay-as-you-upgrade.

I think that ESPN has to do something the gets some market share from Madden. I'm wondering if they figured this...

A gamer walks into the store...Madden is always released first. Since most football games sell the most, many games will get the first out of the gate which is madden. Now you put ESPN in that equation and say gamers already spent $50 bucks for a football game. Some gamers will jsut be satisfied with Madden and will not spend another 50 for ESPN. So what ESPN is trying to do is say, most gamers won't spend 100 for two games but they will spend 70 for two games. So possibly ESPN is thinking we might not be making our usual from 50 retail but atleast we can build our market share and increase sales if it's 20 dollars.

I'm not an MBA grad but just thinking like a casual gamer they probably will buy one game only. With ESPN for a few bucks more than a case of beer many will just get this game as well.

And gravy would be a few more bucks for online play. Say $10 for online leagues and "live content".

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:31 pm

If Sega sells 3 times as many copies of ESPN NFL 2k5 at $19.99 then it did with ESPN Football at $49.99 then they will make more money this year than last and will have 3 times the amount of people who have tried their game. Brilliant move. I'd be surprised if they didn't sell at least 3 times the amount as they did last year considering the sales records of games released at the $20 price point. There will be no online charge, they're just making a very aggressive move to get people to notice their game because they feel it is every bit as good, if not better, than Madden. This might only be a year or two price point but they will get a whole bunch of people to try their game that wouldn't have before.

vader29 · Post by **vader29** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:12 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:This might only be a year or two price point but they will get a whole bunch of people to try their game that wouldn't have before.

Exactly, one or two years of selling it at a low price is all they would need to get more gamers to try it out before raising the price back up to $50 with the release of the next generation systems.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:03 pm

Maybe it will be released from the get-go with a red Greatest Hits stripe, a la Virtua Fighter Evolution....

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:20 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:If Sega sells 3 times as many copies of ESPN NFL 2k5 at $19.99 then it did with ESPN Football at $49.99 then they will make more money this year than last

How do you figure? It all depends on how much it costs to make the game (a simple example below):

Example #1 - Assume it costs $15 to make

Sales = 500k X $35 profit margin ($50-15) = $17,500,000
Sales = 1.5M X $5 profit margin ($20-15) = $7,500,000

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:04 am

Leebo33 wrote:
ScoopBrady wrote:If Sega sells 3 times as many copies of ESPN NFL 2k5 at $19.99 then it did with ESPN Football at $49.99 then they will make more money this year than last
How do you figure? It all depends on how much it costs to make the game (a simple example below):

Example #1 - Assume it costs $15 to make

Sales = 500k X $35 profit margin ($50-15) = $17,500,000
Sales = 1.5M X $5 profit margin ($20-15) = $7,500,000

I was looking at it like this:

Example:

Last year they sell 100,000 at $50 and the game brings in $5,000,000
This year they sell 300,000 at $20 and the game brings in $6,000,000