NCAA Football 12

[Aristo]

It's unrealistic to talk about the passing game in a FOOTBALL game. No Teal has a problem with anyone that complains about games. He did it earlier in the thread. And then because you have people like Teal how have to make a comment on how people talk about the game because we possibly can't discuss a video game in a video game forum we need multiple posts on this whiney nonsense.

It's that people talk about games like there was this magical time in which they were more accurate. Oh, and more fair. The CPU never used to cheat in old sports games.

EA never made an NCAA or Madden game, nor 2K an NFL or NCAA game, that did all of the things right that people like to pitch a fit about today. If this crap annoys you, that's fine. But for chrissakes, stop playing the damn games. Every time you complain about this crap, what you are saying to me is that you to dumb to stop playing games you hate.

I could complain for hours on end about the crap in CoD and BF:BC2 that is cheap, dumb, and annoying. I could do on about the stupid people that play the games online. But you know, I pretty much just don't play them online instead. It's amazing how much I don't care how about the BS in those games when I don't play them.

[Rodster]

The same goes for F1 2010. There are the purists who go to the Codemaster's boards and swear they'll never buy another one of their games because it's not a proper simulation of the sport. And yet what they achieved is mind boggling in such a short period of time.

Yeah I could b*tch about the AI not playing by the same rules as the player or that there are no mechanical breakdowns in the game and where's the safety car? But it's by and large one of the best and most fun Formula 1 games ever made. You the gamer has to decide are you going to enjoy the good parts or are you going to focus on the bad stuff?

If you do you'll be waiting a long time for that perfect game.

[Lancer]

But for chrissakes, stop playing the damn games. Every time you complain about this crap, what you are saying to me is that you to dumb to stop playing games you hate.

I could complain for hours on end about the crap in CoD and BF:BC2 that is cheap, dumb, and annoying. I could do on about the stupid people that play the games online. But you know, I pretty much just don't play them online instead. It's amazing how much I don't care how about the BS in those games when I don't play them.

That's bs. So if you don't like any aspect of a game stop playing? What kind of childish argument is that? If I put my 60 bucks down for a product I have all the right to criticize it and give feedback to the manufacturer. That's not just for videogames, that's for all types of products.

How about this, if you don't like reading valid criticism about this game or any other game, then stop reading the forum.

Give me a break.

[Teal]

Concerning JRod, it isn't a childish idea. In fact, it would be a great idea, if he didn't get his rocks off moaning about something. Every damned year, it's always the same thing: If there's anything that he can actually praise about a game, it has to be qualified with a criticism. It's actually dumbfounding that he continues to buy the damned things. It's absolutely predictable, year after year, that there is an EA sports game. And just as predictable, that JRod will find the dark cloud behind the silver lining. It's why I have the guy on ignore, just makes the football threads easier to digest.

But you people insist on quoting him, dammit...

And actually, JRod, I just have a problem with YOU whining about video games. I never said the game was perfect. I just said it's a game. Enjoy it for what it is, and stop bitching about what it isn't. Get some perspective. And a life.

(And Scoop, before you jump in here, that's the last I'm going to say about this. Don't want to waste another minute on him.)

[FifaInspected]

I really, really enjoy cracking open a cold beer and playing a video game. A perfect break from what at times can be a horrible reality. I've played good games, great games and games that just suck. Communities like this and the conversations within, allow me to make better buying decisions, avoiding the games that suck. Thanks all!

[GTHobbes]

RTG mode is awesome! I did have a weird situation where it was 2nd and 10 and I complete a 17-yard pass. Instead of it being first down my team punts. Now even if the 17-yard pass was ruled incomplete (it was not I checked the play history) it still would have only been 3rd down. That type of s*** ventures into Backbreaker territory for me. Fortunately I have only seen this once.

Isn't this s*** a hypocritical moderator who's just asking for an internet argument?

And an ignorant hypocritical moderator at that, as I've played hundreds of games of BB online and never once saw anything like that. BB's not a perfect game either, but this kind've stuff is MUCH more likely to be seen in a Tiburon game than one from 2k, Natural Motion, or even Tecmo:




And JRod, I know I'm just one dude around here, and that I'm disliked by many of the same dudes as you (and probably many more), but I'm glad to see your posts on NCAA, Madden, The Show, NBA2k, FIFA, and just about everything else, sports game related or otherwise. It's intelligent criticism that get these devs' attention anyways, at least the good ones. All those years of some people blowing smoke up some devs' asses, and look at where we are.

[Rodster]

Which makes my point GT. You looked past the imperfections of BB and have had a blast with it. The same could be said for me regarding F1 2010 and the same can be said for NCAA 12. If a gamer focuses on the negatives then you won't enjoy the game and every year there will always be something that's broke. And what might piss off gamer #1, gamer #2 doesn't care. The following year it could be the complete opposite.

I just look at video games for what they are a form of entertainment. I'm at the point that when I see something like what you posted on that video I just laugh and move on.

[GameSeven]

And JRod, I know I'm just one dude around here, and that I'm disliked by many of the same dudes as you (and probably many more), but I'm glad to see your posts on NCAA, Madden, The Show, NBA2k, FIFA, and just about everything else, sports game related or otherwise. It's intelligent criticism that get these devs' attention anyways, at least the good ones. All those years of some people blowing smoke up some devs' asses, and look at where we are.

The level of disdain for certain critical posts is directly proportional to the lack of nuance therein. When one comes in with a seeming axe to grind especially, in your case, when the complainer often doesn't buy or play the game for any respectable period of time, it is the proverbial clanging gong that just becomes background noise, an irritant.

Coupled with the fact that you seemingly reserve this ire for EA only, as one can provide countless "glitch" and "bug" videos for any of the titles you mentioned above seems disingenuous. Here's a good backbreaker one that is not unlike the NCAA 12 one you just posted:



No doubt had this been an EA game, you would have lambasted this as well.

Lastly, one can criticize without malice in the attempt to draw attention to the negative. You want criticism of NCAA 12? The clock management is FUBAR in the final minutes. The clock *pauses* under resetting the lines from the no-huddle... If I'm playing RTG on the offensive side of the ball and watch the simmed plays with the defense on the field in the final minutes, the CPU will wind down the clock with the lead but if I "super sim" they fire off plays with little or no delay meaning I might get the ball back.

But overall, the game is a lot of fun for me to play. As a RTG QB, I find myself shouting at my RB to get me the yards I need to continue a drive on 3rd and short... I'll shake my head and call out my overmatched O-line after they allow rush after rush against good schools. I'll curse my coaches play calls as I want the ball in my hands on certain plays, even if I'd thrown two picks earlier.

[GTHobbes]

Fair enough, GameSeven. EA has had my ire with their football games, because of their shitty business practices, and Tiburon has had my ire because, before this year, they seemed to be a pretty talent-less bunch, compared to others who have made football games in the past.

After 7 years on the next gen consoles, I agree that it looks like they've gotten their product back to respectability, and I'm glad for the guys who are enjoying the game (and who will enjoy Madden). If the broadcast cam in Madden is the same as the demo cam that I've seen in this year's videos, I might get a lot of enjoyment out of Madden myself this year. But I can already tell you now who will be defending Madden good or bad -- the same guys who do it every year. Just like me with The Show, Backbreaker and NFL2k back in the day.

P.S. And like I said about Backbreaker -- it's nowhere near a perfect game. But it's pretty stupid to compare a first time effort to someone who's been making "next gen" football games for 7 years, and football games in general for 20+. It was Scoop's hypocritical dragging of BB into this thread in the first place that seemed to be the most on point.

[GTHobbes]

Which makes my point GT. You looked past the imperfections of BB and have had a blast with it. The same could be said for me regarding F1 2010 and the same can be said for NCAA 12. If a gamer focuses on the negatives then you won't enjoy the game and every year there will always be something that's broke. And what might piss off gamer #1, gamer #2 doesn't care. The following year it could be the complete opposite.

I just look at video games for what they are a form of entertainment. I'm at the point that when I see something like what you posted on that video I just laugh and move on.

I only posted it in response to Scoop, to make a point. You haven't seen me in this thread talking s*** about what sucks in NCAA. In fact, I'm glad to see people enjoying it. But it is shitty to see the way some guys like JRod and Jack get spoken to around here by a certain clique, and I don't mind saying it.

[GameSeven]

P.S. And like I said about Backbreaker -- it's nowhere near a perfect game. But it's pretty stupid to compare a first time effort to someone who's been making "next gen" football games for 7 years, and football games in general for 20+. It was Scoop's hypocritical dragging of BB into this thread in the first place that seemed to be the most on point.

I appreciate your first comments, but while I'm not going to get into an extended pissing match over semantics, I will draw your attention to saying it is "stupid" to compare BB to EA's offerings. By extension, I could take offense that your calling *my* response in that manner "stupid", but it was merely in reply to *your* statement:

BB's not a perfect game either, but this kind've stuff is MUCH more likely to be seen in a Tiburon game than one from 2k, Natural Motion, or even Tecmo

I just intended to show you, perhaps, that it is equally likely. You made the statement above, yet my response was stupid. That's where allegations of trolling come from.

But I digress, games have bugs. No sports game is perfect. Play what you enjoy and so will I. This is my first NCAA game in three years so I'm hardly an EA shill.

[GTHobbes]

Again, fair point, GameSeven. I was really thinking of Scoop's post when I used the word "stupid," but I recognize I shouldn't have used it at all. Glad you're enjoying NCAA -- I've always liked their player lock feature on defense and hope it makes it into their pro game one of these days.

[HipE]

After five days with NCAA, I'm done with it and trading it to Amazon for $33.75 in credit. I waited a week to buy it to see if the initial glow would fade from the impressions here, but I guess I didn't wait long enough. At least it was only $37 after the $25 gift card Walmart was giving with purchase, so it will only end up costing me the price of a rental.

At this point I'm able to win my games, as I'm shelving a dynasty in which I'm 6-0. The problem is I don't have any fun playing the game, where I really enjoyed NCAA 09, 10 and 11. I think the passing game is a mess, to me challenge does not equal good AI. I had to totally eliminate all out routes as they are sure picks, and curls I quit taking chances on as well. Just because I can complete slants and the occassional streak and be successful enough to win doesn't mean I'm having a good time doing it. I can work around the super LBs in pass coverage, but the jumping over the shoulder interceptions even on lofted passes drive me insane. I miss the past NCAA's where nearly every type of passing play or route could be successful. I don't buy many games anymore, as this and Bobblehead Pros are the only two games I have purchased since Black Ops last fall. I just want to be able to use a named roster file (which seems to be screwed this year) and play a relaxing game that won't freeze on me. That obviously isn't what NCAA is this year, so I'm out.

I will miss the improved running game, especially by the CPU. I also think the graphics are outstanding this year, I really love the lighting, colors and replays. If they could have just given me NCAA 11 with an improved running game and updated graphics, I would have been happy. As it is, I think NCAA 12 is a mess and a pretty big disappointment, enough so that it has killed my interest in Madden this year. I realize I'm about the only one here that feels this way about the game and that most people think it is the greatest football game EA has released, so feel free to dismiss my rant as being out of line and crazy. But I am pretty surprised that my opinion is so far off from what everyone else feels about the game, especially since my tastes are usually in line with the rest of the forum.

[sportdan30]

No HipE, I too find NCAA Football 12 to be rather of a bore. I'm just absolutely frustrated with the passing game. Someone posted a video at OS in which the user's receiver was to streak down the line and then cut back through the middle of the field. Well, he threw the ball too soon, and completed the pass while the WR was still running straight down the field. But, that's not the funny part. The CPU DB while in coverage didn't have his eyes on the WR, but made the cut to the middle AFTER the WR had caught the ball. I'm sorry, but you can't tell me that there aren't psychic defensive backs in this game. They made the passing game harder, and this is one example how they did it! Now, perhaps that doesn't happen without a user named roster file....

[dbdynsty25]

I only posted it in response to Scoop, to make a point. You haven't seen me in this thread talking s*** about what sucks in NCAA. In fact, I'm glad to see people enjoying it. But it is shitty to see the way some guys like JRod and Jack get spoken to around here by a certain clique, and I don't mind saying it.

An entire community vs. 3 is a clique? Interesting. And of course you don't mind saying it...what repercussions would there even be? Someone gonna come knock on your door and kick your ass or something? Scoop was hypocritical bring up BB...agreed, but wow, you and Jack sure like to fly the f*ck off the handle when someone touches your sensitive spot below the belt. eeesh Point made...I guess.

[TCrouch]

I had to totally eliminate all out routes as they are sure picks, and curls I quit taking chances on as well. Just because I can complete slants and the occassional streak and be successful enough to win doesn't mean I'm having a good time doing it. I can work around the super LBs in pass coverage, but the jumping over the shoulder interceptions even on lofted passes drive me insane.

I've read a lot of this thread and decided I'm glad I don't see what a lot of other people see. I hit out routes regularly if they're there. I hit hitches if they're there. I haven't had a single route that I CAN'T throw in the game if it's there for the taking. I think that's what impresses me the most. I was playing Teal this weekend, and if he gave me a spot in the called defense to try to exploit, I'd hit it. Whether it was an out, a hitch, a streak, a drag--I didn't care where it was, I had to take that spot. Forcing something led to a turnover (which he forced me into with pressure). I've floated passes over linebackers regularly, and also been picked off when I throw at a receiver where the defender is backpedaling and staring me down. That's the single biggest adjustment I had to make with this game. If a defender was facing me, they'd break on the ball quickly, especially safeties. In those cases, you need more room. If they've got their back to you, you have a lot more you can do with the throw.

I really don't know what to say. You gotta do what you gotta do, but I think this game compares very favorably to the prior NCAA games because of the passing game now. In the past I could throw slants and flag routes all day with impunity. I had to self-impose rules on myself to try out other routes because there were a couple that I could hit 90% of the time. Now, some routes are easier, but if I don't adjust for the defense, it's a turnover waiting to happen.

I am the first to admit that everybody has different tastes, and that's nowhere more apparent than in sports games. But I don't think it's as much 'new game smell' as it is something different that people are beginning to realize won't be the same as past years. I've played dozens and dozens of games and still have the occasional stinker of a passing game. I haven't seen that being due to super LBs or unthrowable routes--quite the opposite. It has to do with me making a mistake and forcing something. Then getting behind and forcing another. It's very organic to me.

But I'm glad not everybody feels the same way. Otherwise life would be boring.

[Inuyasha]

Ok, I like a dumb f0ck after reading toon's and tcrouch's testimony of this game ran out and got it LOL

But now it's going back.

I was off last week from work and NCAA 12 was a great distraction for me. But now after probably 30 some hours playing it, Im done with it.

I got to say RTG is fun and addictive as hell, but Dynasty and the regular gameplay is sort of broken as others have recently mentioned. No big deal, I enjoyed the game, but it's going to be hard for me to play it again during a normal work week.

On a side note about the passing game, my son loved Mascot Mashup in 11 last year. So when he got to play it in 12, he was told me to sell 12 and rebuy 11. I asked him why. He even said at his young age that the passing in 12 is so messed up that they're always intercepting him even when his guys are wide open, LOL.

I guess Rodster was the smart one here to wait.

That's ok though, if you guys enjoy the game, that's awesome. I really liked it too but with a full schedule Its hard to find time.

[JRod]

Concerning JRod, it isn't a childish idea. In fact, it would be a great idea, if he didn't get his rocks off moaning about something. Every damned year, it's always the same thing: If there's anything that he can actually praise about a game, it has to be qualified with a criticism. It's actually dumbfounding that he continues to buy the damned things. It's absolutely predictable, year after year, that there is an EA sports game. And just as predictable, that JRod will find the dark cloud behind the silver lining. It's why I have the guy on ignore, just makes the football threads easier to digest.

But you people insist on quoting him, dammit...

And actually, JRod, I just have a problem with YOU whining about video games. I never said the game was perfect. I just said it's a game. Enjoy it for what it is, and stop bitching about what it isn't. Get some perspective. And a life.

(And Scoop, before you jump in here, that's the last I'm going to say about this. Don't want to waste another minute on him.)

This is an internet board to discuss sports games. We are here to talk about the games. You are on the wrong side of this. If you don't like people talking about the game then don't post. It's as simple as that.

Not only that but how hypocritical is it, that you can't see what I post but you feel need to repost on a snippet of what was quoted? Incredible really.

[GTHobbes]

But I'm glad not everybody feels the same way. Otherwise life would be boring.

Amen on that, Terry.

[JRod]

I had to totally eliminate all out routes as they are sure picks, and curls I quit taking chances on as well. Just because I can complete slants and the occassional streak and be successful enough to win doesn't mean I'm having a good time doing it. I can work around the super LBs in pass coverage, but the jumping over the shoulder interceptions even on lofted passes drive me insane.

I've read a lot of this thread and decided I'm glad I don't see what a lot of other people see. I hit out routes regularly if they're there. I hit hitches if they're there. I haven't had a single route that I CAN'T throw in the game if it's there for the taking. I think that's what impresses me the most. I was playing Teal this weekend, and if he gave me a spot in the called defense to try to exploit, I'd hit it. Whether it was an out, a hitch, a streak, a drag--I didn't care where it was, I had to take that spot. Forcing something led to a turnover (which he forced me into with pressure). I've floated passes over linebackers regularly, and also been picked off when I throw at a receiver where the defender is backpedaling and staring me down. That's the single biggest adjustment I had to make with this game. If a defender was facing me, they'd break on the ball quickly, especially safeties. In those cases, you need more room. If they've got their back to you, you have a lot more you can do with the throw.

I really don't know what to say. You gotta do what you gotta do, but I think this game compares very favorably to the prior NCAA games because of the passing game now. In the past I could throw slants and flag routes all day with impunity. I had to self-impose rules on myself to try out other routes because there were a couple that I could hit 90% of the time. Now, some routes are easier, but if I don't adjust for the defense, it's a turnover waiting to happen.

I am the first to admit that everybody has different tastes, and that's nowhere more apparent than in sports games. But I don't think it's as much 'new game smell' as it is something different that people are beginning to realize won't be the same as past years. I've played dozens and dozens of games and still have the occasional stinker of a passing game. I haven't seen that being due to super LBs or unthrowable routes--quite the opposite. It has to do with me making a mistake and forcing something. Then getting behind and forcing another. It's very organic to me.

But I'm glad not everybody feels the same way. Otherwise life would be boring.

The problem simply for me is executing good football sometimes loses out in favor the AI doing really stupid s***. Is it all the time, no. As Stanford, I've had games where I went 25-30. But I don't think it's as much as I played good football as I played good NCAA. Like on a 3-step drop, waiting until you have more separation because the game penalizes for timed routes because the AI can react too quickly. But the thing is that it's a timed route, you aren't supposed to wait the whole goal is to fire it in quickly before the defense has a chance to react. Or getting picked on a deep pass because the defender can jump into the trajectory of the ball, even on a moon ball.

I don't think the passing game is improved as much as the running game is. It's a thing of beauty running between the tackles for 6 yards. I don't feel the same way in the passing game. Now that doesn't mean it's broken it's just frustrating.

[Teal]

Terry, I agree with you, man. I just don't see any trouble with the passing game, except that I suck at reading defenses sometimes...especially Terry's. This whole package is so much better than any previous iteration, the running, the passing, the defense. I don't feel like I've been ripped off yet by super DB's or whatever. I don't mind that opinions vary, just get tired of the same characters doing the same moaning and groaning year in and year out. Thing is, Terry and I play this thing nearly every night, and usually 2 or 3 games' worth at a time. In all that time, I've been far more frustrated with my own play than with anything I perceive the AI doing or not doing. In fact, I've seen the AI do some very impressive things, but never that felt 'cheap'...just what they're supposed to do. I look back at replays of things that might look a little suspicious, and usually say 'nope, that was my fault for trying to throw into that coverage' or whatever.

Just because I'm having more fun with this NCAA than any previous (even the really good NCAA 11), I guess I'm just flabberghasted.

[Leebo33]

I had to totally eliminate all out routes as they are sure picks, and curls I quit taking chances on as well. Just because I can complete slants and the occassional streak and be successful enough to win doesn't mean I'm having a good time doing it. I can work around the super LBs in pass coverage, but the jumping over the shoulder interceptions even on lofted passes drive me insane.

I've read a lot of this thread and decided I'm glad I don't see what a lot of other people see. I hit out routes regularly if they're there. I hit hitches if they're there. I haven't had a single route that I CAN'T throw in the game if it's there for the taking. I think that's what impresses me the most.

Yeah, I agree. I've always been a very casual player...go with the suggested playcall, rarely audible or hot route, never really read a defense. I'll preface my remarks by saying I have interceptions lowered to 45. This is the first year that I've really had to use all the tools available and it's a lot of fun. It's actually necessary to look at individual DBs and LBs to see how they are playing. If you have an average QB and the defender is playing bump and run it is very hard to complete an out. So I may have to audible, hot route, or look elsewhere. But eventually with the right matchup all plays work for me...but they don't always work which makes it fun. It makes for a very fun chess match which I've never experienced in an EA football game before.

[HipE]

I had to totally eliminate all out routes as they are sure picks, and curls I quit taking chances on as well. Just because I can complete slants and the occassional streak and be successful enough to win doesn't mean I'm having a good time doing it. I can work around the super LBs in pass coverage, but the jumping over the shoulder interceptions even on lofted passes drive me insane.

I've read a lot of this thread and decided I'm glad I don't see what a lot of other people see. I hit out routes regularly if they're there. I hit hitches if they're there. I haven't had a single route that I CAN'T throw in the game if it's there for the taking. I think that's what impresses me the most. I was playing Teal this weekend, and if he gave me a spot in the called defense to try to exploit, I'd hit it. Whether it was an out, a hitch, a streak, a drag--I didn't care where it was, I had to take that spot. Forcing something led to a turnover (which he forced me into with pressure). I've floated passes over linebackers regularly, and also been picked off when I throw at a receiver where the defender is backpedaling and staring me down. That's the single biggest adjustment I had to make with this game. If a defender was facing me, they'd break on the ball quickly, especially safeties. In those cases, you need more room. If they've got their back to you, you have a lot more you can do with the throw.

I really don't know what to say. You gotta do what you gotta do, but I think this game compares very favorably to the prior NCAA games because of the passing game now. In the past I could throw slants and flag routes all day with impunity. I had to self-impose rules on myself to try out other routes because there were a couple that I could hit 90% of the time. Now, some routes are easier, but if I don't adjust for the defense, it's a turnover waiting to happen.

I am the first to admit that everybody has different tastes, and that's nowhere more apparent than in sports games. But I don't think it's as much 'new game smell' as it is something different that people are beginning to realize won't be the same as past years. I've played dozens and dozens of games and still have the occasional stinker of a passing game. I haven't seen that being due to super LBs or unthrowable routes--quite the opposite. It has to do with me making a mistake and forcing something. Then getting behind and forcing another. It's very organic to me.

But I'm glad not everybody feels the same way. Otherwise life would be boring.

I think one reason we have such different opinions on the game is that we are two totally different gamers. You are probably the best sports gamer that I know of (and I'm not blowing smoke up your ass, you really are unbelievable at most sports games), and from reading all of your posts in this thread it took even you multiple seasons playing QB in RTG and I'm guessing dozens of online and offline games to get to the point where you can be successful passing most of the time on AA level. I'm more of the lazy average gamer, who picks from the coach selected plays on offense and defense, rarely audibles or uses hot routes, and just wants to throw the ball around and have fun and get decent stats on 5 or 6 min quarters. Even if I put in dozens of hours learning the nuances of the game I doubt I could reach your level. I wish they had taken the level that you have to play at to be successful and made it Heisman, where I could play the game at a difficulty that is what AA has been in the past. Varsity is still way too easy for me and I'm not a slider guy, so I'm left with a game that feels like it has a broken passing game to someone of my abilities. While it is great for you that a game has been made that challenges you the way NCAA 12 does, they've alienated an average Joe like me in the process.

Even with that being said, I'm convinced there are funny things going on. The example that sticks out to me game after game that I play is when the DB is playing my outside receiver man to man, and I know there isn't going to be any safety help. I snap the ball, then wait for the WR to break away from the jam at the line and get around the DB, then I press up on the left stick and just tap the pass button to avoid throwing a line drive. I'd say 80% of the time, the DB runs a step or two behind my WR, then makes a leaping over the shoulder catch to intercept the ball even though he is trailing the receiver. I'm not sure if it is just that my QB sucks and can't throw the ball deep enough, but it happens time after time, with me almost never being able to overthrow the receiver. Another thing that happens in this same situation is that as soon as the receiver gets off the jam and I throw the ball, the receiver inexplicably stops in his tracks and the ball just lobs straight over to the sideline, where the WR and DB are just standing still next to each other until the DB jumps up and picks it off. Like I said, I can get the ball over the LBs patrolling the middle of the field in zone coverage now, but it is the crazy number of interceptions that I throw when I feel like I'm doing everything right that pisses me off to no end.

[Inuyasha]

Ya this game reminds me of those early 2k football games pre 2k5.

They were great games, but they were too hardcore for the casual player. I think it was 2k3 where people complained about WRs dropping the ball. That wasn't the case, it was just that in that game the developers wanted you to actually play, not watch. So when you threw to the WR, you had to take control of him and hit the catch button. Alot of people didn't get that, because they were use to the casual Madden style which was basically auto catch regardless of if you hit the catch button or not. So whenever the WR dropped the ball in 2K3, people said the game was broken because they were not use to manual catch.

Now 12 is the only game in town ncaa wise, there is no alternative, and I think a lot of people who have been complaining about the passing game are casual gamers who just don't have the time to go thru each intricacy of the offense. The hardcore gamers, always in the minority, can do that and that's probably why they've figured out the passing and are enjoying it a whole lot more. But for the rest of us, we just don't have the time or have other things we need prioritize, like out kids summer vacations

[Teal]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...no one has EVER accused me of being a 'hardcore' video game anything, not the least football games. I'm a purely casual gamer, who happens to think this iteration bests all previous versions by a large margin. It's not a hardcore thing.