NBA 2k6 360 online, how do you stop constant dunking

[anchester]

every time i play online, my opponent will constantly go to the hoop w/ a good dunker and more or less shoot about 75%. I have tried 2-3 zone and doubling at times and while it helps some, it is still damn near impossible to stop these cheesers.

The game is so good otherwise, this is really hurting my enjoyment of the game.

[Airdog]

The only sure solution to this is to play against people that you know aren't cheesers.

I know, typical answer but I doubt there's much else that you can do.

[Atxj]

Use the breakdown button to get into a defensive stance and if most times if the try and make a move at you your defender will take a position in front of them and not let them by.

I also use the double team alot and it helps a ton when used in the right situation.

[Badgun]

I'm seeing the same thing on the College Hoops as well. I've given up on playing either of these games online.

[fsquid]

The breakdown button?

[Badgun]

The breakdown button?

I think he means the left trigger...the button that puts you in the defensive crouch position. It doesn't do a whole lot of good though. You might draw a charge one out of 10 times down the court.

[Leebo33]

Have you guys tried adjusting any of your coaching settings at all? If so, what have you tried?

People seem to complain every year about this in the 2K games. I remember it was a heated issue during our College Hoops tourney last year. Yet I played people in those tournaments that really shut me down on D (Sully and Dookie come to mind), so it is possible to play great "D".

Has anyone had success shutting down their opponents or is this a unique problem with the 360 version?

[fsquid]

Last night I was being torched by Francis. Couldn't stop him from getting to the rim and dunking at will. If I managed to slow him down, usually Hill was wide open.

[AJColossal]

Sometimes it's not a matter of stopping them so much as it is a matter of getting people to play a fairly realistic game. You stop them in one thing, they're just going to find something else to do over and over again.

I don't play online sports games much because people only play to win at any cost, even if it means exploiting a game's limitation and doing only one thing the entire game. It happens in pretty much every sport.

Even if I won every game, I wouldn't get any sense of fun by doing that. Apparently when it comes to online play, I am in the vast minority.

[Zeppo]

Maybe I am missing something, but isn't the aim of basketball to put the ball in the goal? IRL if you could dunk it every time, wouldn't you? How exactly is this cheese? Seems to me it happens quite often in college in the early, cup-cake time of the season, and more often in high school.

BTW if you want to draw a charge in this game, you don't want to be using the L-trigger 'ready position' button (I guess 'breakdown' is a football-specific term?), you want to use the B-button, I think labeled the "take charge" button. The L-trigger is useful in trying to stop the other players' progress or change his direction of movement with the traditional hoops-game force field.

I don't play against randoms much if at all, and haven't yet in this hoops game, but I've taken some good charges near the hoop, and been guilty of several as well. Charges can occur not only on dunk attempts but also on any R-trigger 'Iso-motion' move. I've found some dunks can be challenged with a well-positioned and well-timed Y-button jump, more likely to succeed with the R-trigger held down, but also more likely to cause a foul as well.

As they say, don't blame the player, blame the game. If the hoops game is broken to the point that you can't stop any dunks, then it's broken. It would be like a football game where if you run a sweep you never get stopped and score every time, breaking all tackle attempts (wasn't that one called NFL 2K3? Or was it 2K2, or 2K4?). To me cheese would be subbing in all centers and power forwards, because the game had no ball-handling penalties for the big guys. Or subbing in all PGs and SGs because they could box out and rebound well against men a foot or more taller. That to my mind would be taking unfair advantage of a flaw in the game, much like using some kind of onside kick glitch that allowed you to recover it every time. Basically, something that is out of the realm of normal play that is highly successful in the game because the game has a glitch.

But being able to dunk a lot with a normal starting 5 seems to me to be so basic to the game of basketball, that if it really is impossible to stop, the game is truly broken as a sim of hoops. The other thing is that, if they can dunk every time, then you should dunk every time too. Sure, then the game just becomes a dunk contest, but at least the playing field is level.

I admit I am biased, because I have yet to play any basketball video game that in my mind captures the essential elements of the game in anything resembling a realistic way (unlike the great degree of verisimilitude in games like WE or the latest MVP etc.).

[Badgun]

Maybe I am missing something, but isn't the aim of basketball to put the ball in the goal? IRL if you could dunk it every time, wouldn't you? How exactly is this cheese? Seems to me it happens quite often in college in the early, cup-cake time of the season, and more often in high school.

Zeppo, While I understand your reasoning, it's severely flawed. Apply that same logic to football. Isn't the point of the game to put the ball in the end zone? How exactly is throwing the bomb every down cheese? Or baseball. Isn't the point to score more runs than your opponent? How exactly is never throwing strikes cheese?

My point is that EVERY sports game has flaws that can be exploited to someone's advantage. You just have to hope that you play online with people that either don;t know about them or won't use them.

This type of thread has been beaten to death and usually the catch-all answer is don't play randoms, but sometimes if you want to play, that just can't be avoided. It is inherrent in people to want to win, so a lot of people just won't play in the spirit of the game if it means they can't win.

I don't have the answers, but I just rarely play sports games online anymore as a result of this behavior.

[Kruza]

every time i play online, my opponent will constantly go to the hoop w/ a good dunker and more or less shoot about 75%. I have tried 2-3 zone and doubling at times and while it helps some, it is still damn near impossible to stop these cheesers.

The game is so good otherwise, this is really hurting my enjoyment of the game.

This is what I posted at OS in reponse to this post:

There isn't really much you can do about this since your CPU teammates standing at/near the lane don't collapse on a ballhandler quick enough to stop him from getting all the way to the basket in this game. Plus the Box-and-1 scheme isn't fixed on this game for a user to allow him to shadow elite SGs or SFs with his team's best on-ball defender. (This will be fixed in the X360 version of CH 2K6.) If you like to play on-ball defense, you have to stay in front of the ballhandler and try and force him into taking a tough awkward layup. If you prefer playing off the ball, try to control a big man and manually move over to alter or block his layup/dunk attempt as he attacks the basket.

It also helps to go to Coach Settings and set overall defensive pressure really loose (4 or less notches from the left). This allows your CPU teammates to be in better position to defend against the drive every time in situations where you're playing help/off-ball D. If good spot-up jumpshooters are hitting enough outside shots on you, then you can apply tight pressure on that specific player in the Player Matchup screen.

Kruza

[anchester]

As they say, don't blame the player, blame the game. If the hoops game is broken to the point that you can't stop any dunks, then it's broken. It would be like a football game where if you run a sweep you never get stopped and score every time, breaking all tackle attempts (wasn't that one called NFL 2K3? Or was it 2K2, or 2K4?). To me cheese would be subbing in all centers and power forwards, because the game had no ball-handling penalties for the big guys. Or subbing in all PGs and SGs because they could box out and rebound well against men a foot or more taller. That to my mind would be taking unfair advantage of a flaw in the game, much like using some kind of onside kick glitch that allowed you to recover it every time. Basically, something that is out of the realm of normal play that is highly successful in the game because the game has a glitch.

But being able to dunk a lot with a normal starting 5 seems to me to be so basic to the game of basketball, that if it really is impossible to stop, the game is truly broken as a sim of hoops. The other thing is that, if they can dunk every time, then you should dunk every time too. Sure, then the game just becomes a dunk contest, but at least the playing field is level.

I admit I am biased, because I have yet to play any basketball video game that in my mind captures the essential elements of the game in anything resembling a realistic way (unlike the great degree of verisimilitude in games like WE or the latest MVP etc.).

Excellent analysis and sadly true. It is obviously very hard to make a good sim BBall online. I think a better approach would be to make it a bit more arcadey w/ the defensive controls (ala nba live). In other words, if you gotta big guy on D defending the rim, basically it should be a block nearly every time. I just dont think there is enough penalty in this game for fatigue, handling the ball in traffic, dunking over or near someone, or losing the ball for doing constant crossovers, etc. I just think the 2k series has always been a too offensive minded game. Defense is just much harder to pull off. I used to always say the same for inside drive, where if you get the ball down low to a big man, it was dunktime.

NBA Live series gets around the dunkfest by an unrealistic number of blocks, auto double teams, and more forcefields. Of course NBA live blows in many other ways (namely the single player game),

[sportdan30]

The solution is obvious. Kruza touched on it. If you're playing online, take control of the center. I like playing with Houston. Thus, I use Yao to stop the obsessive dunking.

It worked like a charm when I played someone last week. He constantly drove with Iverson. I'm talking all game. His teamates could have sat on the bench for all it mattered. Anyways, he became more and more incensed I was forcing his controlled Iverson in to contested shots. It wasn't until late in the 4th quarter he decided to start playing "real" basketball.

I don't play this game online much because I don't tend to see a whole lot of passing and teamwork play going on.

[bdunn13]

Kruza,

you are right, play loose. Most people will for some reason play tight as they think thats just "better D" - which will cut down on outside jumpers but make driving the paint very easy.

[Zeppo]

Zeppo, While I understand your reasoning, it's severely flawed. Apply that same logic to football. Isn't the point of the game to put the ball in the end zone? How exactly is throwing the bomb every down cheese? Or baseball. Isn't the point to score more runs than your opponent? How exactly is never throwing strikes cheese?

I guess this is a 'to each his own' type deal, but I don't see any of those examples as anything remotely like cheese.

Throw the bomb every play? Please do, the game will be over at half time, when I double your time of posession. Never throw strikes? Nothing would please me more as I fill the bases with walks. In fact, never throwing strikes should be and is a viable strategy for defensive baseball, until you are punished by patient hitting. I simply can't imagine it's true, but apparently it is, that some here have had kids online complain to them when playing "just throw strikes, this is BS." No, it's not BS. It's baseball. Develop an eye or don't bother playing.

I guess it's really about the definition of 'cheese,' but I don't see any of these examples as such.

[AJColossal]

Whether you define it as "cheese" or not, or whether it's my fault for not being able to come up with the correct way to stop them isn't really the point for me.

If someone does one thing the entire game, whether I stop them or not, the experience as a whole, to me, is lame. Win or lose.

[Badgun]

Zeppo, While I understand your reasoning, it's severely flawed. Apply that same logic to football. Isn't the point of the game to put the ball in the end zone? How exactly is throwing the bomb every down cheese? Or baseball. Isn't the point to score more runs than your opponent? How exactly is never throwing strikes cheese?

I guess this is a 'to each his own' type deal, but I don't see any of those examples as anything remotely like cheese.

Throw the bomb every play? Please do, the game will be over at half time, when I double your time of posession. Never throw strikes? Nothing would please me more as I fill the bases with walks. In fact, never throwing strikes should be and is a viable strategy for defensive baseball, until you are punished by patient hitting. I simply can't imagine it's true, but apparently it is, that some here have had kids online complain to them when playing "just throw strikes, this is BS." No, it's not BS. It's baseball. Develop an eye or don't bother playing.

I guess it's really about the definition of 'cheese,' but I don't see any of these examples as such.

Hehe, apparently you haven't played Madden against a Moss cheeser. The bomb works about 75% of the time and the ONLY way you can defend it is to take control of your safety and make a play yourself. Problem is, Moss has like 97 speed which means there are only a few DBs in the game that can cover him.

As far as throwing strikes goes, you're right, but in most baseball games, it is so hard to tell the difference between a ball and a strike especially if a guy is using Randy Johnson or some other fireballer. A lot of guys online just want to swing the bat as quick as they can so it's really easy to strike guys out without ever throwing a pitch that they can get a bat on.

I don't disagree with you, but I'm just saying that your approach to how to handle these guys would fail more often than not. Trust me, I've seen the underbelly of online sports gaming and for the most part it is very very ugly.

[Boom]

Hehe, apparently you haven't played Madden against a Moss cheeser.

I've seen him, and I welcome him just as I welcome the Vick cheese-head too.

IMO, playing safety is the only way to play Madden. Playing against somebody who plays as the DL on defense is like playing the cpu imo.

[bdunn13]

Also, if dunking is easy or you can do it everytime, there is no difference in playing someone that dunks everytime and someone that just dunks when the need a basket.

I have played the xbox version(not 360) and can say its not broken.

[Badgun]

Also, if dunking is easy or you can do it everytime, there is no difference in playing someone that dunks everytime and someone that just dunks when the need a basket.

I have played the xbox version(not 360) and can say its not broken.

I agree, I don't think it's broken...it just depends on who you play.

[anchester]

the problem i have in video game bball is that the best players are always the high flying dunkers. Guys like carter, lebron, etc are 5x better than a guy like nowitzki, nash or ray allen.

Sure you can block with a 7' 5" yao over a 6 ft iverson, but take your average center and try to block lebron. Good luck

[Kruza]

the problem i have in video game bball is that the best players are always the high flying dunkers. Guys like carter, lebron, etc are 5x better than a guy like nowitzki, nash or ray allen.

Sure you can block with a 7' 5" yao over a 6 ft iverson, but take your average center and try to block lebron. Good luck

Heh, I know what you mean about players like LeBron, Kobe, T-Mac, VC and DWade in NBA 2K6. As is, these guys among a few others can do a standstill dunk over a crowd of bigs standing under the basket from as far as six feet away... and never miss. That issue has got to be addressed.

And another gripe I have is that as a defender you can be in perfect position to take a charge, standing there for almost a full second before getting trampled over as a ballhandler takes off and rises for a dunk. Yet there is no call. Or worse, you're whistled for a blocking foul instead. I know that officials miss calls on occasion, but damn. The number of no-calls or missed calls throughout a game can really get out of hand when these players are involved and you're playing on their home floor. And sometimes I've even seen a ballhandler teleport through a set defender as he goes for a layup/dunk on the baseline, as if no one was standing in his path.

Kruza

[AJColossal]

Yeah, this opens a whole other can of worms. For fouls to be called accurately, video games must do a better job of collision detection. We're not quite at that point with the current technology, so you see Steve Francis partially passing through a player who is standing still and hoping for a charge call.

When you see charging called in a game, it seems to be somewhat randomly generated, and not based exactly on what is happening on the court.

[seanmac31]

Basketball games are particularly difficult to play defense in thanks to the ease with which someone can take a guard and make rapid, unrealistic lateral motions that are virtually impossible to follow. If someone is absolutely determined to take Kobe and put up 50, they probably can. On the other hand, I wouldn't say that it's impossible to play defense- you simply have to make the guy work hard for his shots. I've been able to hold players around 45-50% from the field in 2K6- not great defense, but good enough- primarily by using an off-the-ball defender to cut off the driving lanes. If someone is using Lebron, I'll use the shooting guard or the point guard and manually double, but not in an attempt to steal. I'll just look to keep him from attacking the hoop.