OT: Ugghhh

[PadresFan104]

Small world, my first house was in the Rancho Del Oro area. That's a nice area, and 500K for a 4 bedroom house in that area is actually a good deal. I bet you have 100 grand in equity already the way prices are going up in that area.

Yeah, we haven't looked too closely yet, but we figure we've gained at least 50K in equity in this first year...

For those of you who can't fathom the idea of paying 500K for a modest sized house, here's some of the reasons why I love it here:

1) I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia. I shoveled snow for 20 years, dealt with humid summers and cold winters. You can have that crap. I love to golf, barbecue, and be able to play hoops in the driveway with my kids all year round. In my mind, this alone compensates for the cost of living here.

2) DSC morning show on 101.5.

3) You can fly from SD to Hawaii for $250 (round trip) if you keep your eyes on the fares.

4) During the winter, skiing is only 2 hours away.

5) Vegas is only 5 hours away!

6) You can't throw a rock without hitting a golf course.

7) I may have a one hour commute to and from work, but it's along the Pacific Ocean, which is pretty cool.

I have palm trees outside of my office window.

9) Warmer weather means much more opportunity for eye candy at our outdoor malls.

10) I don't have to stay up until past midnight if my favorite team is playing a game on the West cost!

11) Finally, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't soak in the beauty of this part of the country. The ocean is great, the inland areas have some great windy mountain roads (going up to Julian) with fantastic vistas, and the sunsets are great. My kids don't seem to appreciate this kind of stuff, but when you grew up in PA, you really appreciate it.

-Al

[pk500]

Guess I'm in the opposite position as Al.

I grew up in Syracuse, went to school in downstate N.Y. and worked in the Southern Tier of New York before moving to L.A. in 1993 for a job. It took only six months for the nausea over L.A. and Southern California to build enough in my wife and I to head the hell back to Central New York in April 1994, where we've been ever since and hopefully will be until we head upstairs to see the Big Man.

Reasons I love Syracuse:

1. Four real, distinct seasons.

2. Real winter, with 120+ inches of snow.

3. Downhill skiing 10 minutes from my front door. Cross-country skiing in the acres of cornfields right behind my house.

4. Forget leaving the doors unlocked at night -- I can leave them wide-open by mistake without worry.

5. Bought a 2,600 square-foot, four-bedroom colonial with 1.1 acres of land and an in-ground pool in the country for $99,500 in 1995.

6. Great schools.

7. Zero traffic compared to major metro areas.

8. Great college sports with Syracuse University, with AAA baseball and AHL hockey. Not bad for a city of 135,000.

9. Beautiful area, with Finger Lakes (boating, swimming, fishing, wineries), Lake Ontario and St. Lawrence River all less than 90 minutes away.

10. Adirondack Mountains only two hours away. State law prevents excessive development, so it really is the wilderness up there.

11. Rolling hills covered with trees look gorgeous in the fall.

12. Very low crime rate compared to major metro areas.

13. Real people not obsessed with image and status or plastic surgery. Yeah, that's generalizing, but SoCal is the most image-conscious, vapid area that I've ever experienced in the U.S. Miami is a close second. One positive about that image consciousness is that people are generally WAY more fit in SoCal than any other area of the country I've visited. You just don't see as many dumpy, fat people in L.A. as you do in other areas. That is very cool.

There's more, but I'll stop now.

Take care,
PK

[Brando70]

I loved San Diego when I lived there. Went to high school and a year at UCSD before transferring to Davis. It's beautiful. I actually don't have too much problem with the Midwestern winters (they suck, but I'm used to them), but I can understand why people are willing to pony up a king's ransom for 70 degree winters. I just don't know, even adjusting for salary discrepencies, how the hell I would find a house I could afford.

[bkrich83]

Guess I'm in the opposite position as Al.

I grew up in Syracuse, went to school in downstate N.Y. and worked in the Southern Tier of New York before moving to L.A. in 1993 for a job. It took only six months for the nausea over L.A. and Southern California to build enough in my wife and I to head the hell back to Central New York in April 1994, where we've been ever since and hopefully will be until we head upstairs to see the Big Man.

Reasons I love Syracuse:

1. Four real, distinct seasons.

2. Real winter, with 120+ inches of snow.

3. Downhill skiing 10 minutes from my front door. Cross-country skiing in the acres of cornfields right behind my house.

4. Forget leaving the doors unlocked at night -- I can leave them wide-open by mistake without worry.

5. Bought a 2,600 square-foot, four-bedroom colonial with 1.1 acres of land and an in-ground pool in the country for $99,500 in 1995.

6. Great schools.

7. Zero traffic compared to major metro areas.

8. Great college sports with Syracuse.

9. Beautiful area, with Finger Lakes (boating, swimming, fishing, wineries), Lake Ontario and St. Lawrence River all less than 90 minutes away.

10. Adirondack Mountains only two hours away. State law prevents excessive development, so it really is the wilderness up there.

11. Rolling hills covered with trees look gorgeous in the fall.

12. Very low crime rate compared to major metro areas.

13. Real people not obsessed with image and status or plastic surgery. Yeah, that's generalizing, but SoCal is the most image-conscious, vapid area that I've ever experienced in the U.S. Miami is a close second. One positive about that image consciousness is that people are generally WAY more fit in SoCal than any other area of the country I've visited. You just don't see as many dumpy, fat people in L.A. as you do in other areas. That is very cool.

There's more, but I'll stop now.

Take care,
PK

Too be fair LA and the SD are worlds apart as far as way of life. SD is way more laid back and mellow, the two areas just aren't comparable.

I would bet Paul, the crime rate in your neck of the woods and in my neighborhood are very comparable.

I own a condo in Mammoth and can be skiing in 5 hours from my house. Considering I can be surfing within 3 minutes of my house, that's a pretty good combo, that would be tough to do anywhere else in the country.

[dbdynsty25]

I own a condo in Mammoth and can be skiing in 5 hours from my house. Considering I can be surfing within 3 minutes of my house, that's a pretty good combo, that would be tough to do anywhere else in the country.

Holy hell...how fast do you drive man. It takes me 6 hours to get there from LA (300 miles) and it's bascially north east so SD is quite a bit further away (probably 400 miles) and the last 50 up a damn hill slowing you down even more.

[pk500]

I would bet Paul, the crime rate in your neck of the woods and in my neighborhood are very comparable.

BK:

Probably true, although I'm guessing that you live in a pretty elite area of San Diego. Marcellus is considered middle to upper-middle ground in the Syracuse area. Not white trash, but not the gold coast, either.

Anyways, there have been exactly two murders in my town since it was founded in the late 1700s. Both were intra-family jobs.

Still, there isn't a gated community, a car alarm or a home security system in sight within 3 miles of my house. And no one has a wall around their backyard.

That flipped me out about SoCal more than anything else -- the block walls around backyards. Reminded me of expanded prison exercise yards put behind expensive houses.

Strange, at least for me.

Take care,
PK

[fatheadX]

OK, I'll play. Reasons I love Colorado:

1) All my stuff is here.

[bkrich83]

I own a condo in Mammoth and can be skiing in 5 hours from my house. Considering I can be surfing within 3 minutes of my house, that's a pretty good combo, that would be tough to do anywhere else in the country.

Holy hell...how fast do you drive man. It takes me 6 hours to get there from LA (300 miles) and it's bascially north east so SD is quite a bit further away (probably 400 miles) and the last 50 up a damn hill slowing you down even more.

15 to good ole' 395. Speed depends on which of my cars I drive. I got some traffic last time and it took me 6 hours.

[TheMightyPuck]

Now I know why I get paid crap. My company is GA based and I work in Pasadena. I don't even want to think what a house in my 91106 zip costs (I'm like 60 and I still rent although I have some excuses involving disassociating myself from certain females). Anyway, when I can ride my bike to work and take a nice 15 minute walk to the bar at the Ritz-Carlton and pay around a third in rent what I'd have to pony up (in the bizarro world where I could actually afford to) for a mortage on a place in Fontana, I'm sticking where I am. Fontana does offer a racetrack, a nice long commute, and convenient access to crystal meth but I'm willing to sacrifice.

[PadresFan104]

Still, there isn't a gated community, a car alarm or a home security system in sight within 3 miles of my house. And no one has a wall around their backyard.

That flipped me out about SoCal more than anything else -- the block walls around backyards. Reminded me of expanded prison exercise yards put behind expensive houses.

No argument there PK. I recently used Google Maps to take a look at the satellite imagery of the house I grew up in, and my kids were amazed at how much open land we had around our house. No walls or fences around yards, etc.

Like BK mentioned though, San Diego and Orange/LA counties are worlds apart. The beach towns from Pacific Beach to Oceanside in San Diego are about 1000% more relaxed than anything you'll find up north.

- Al

[matthewk]

Paid $194K for my house not quite 2 years ago and it just appraised for $260!! I'm a happy camper!

Why are you so happy about it? This is something I do not understand. If you sell you house now at the inflated price, you'll just be spending that same money on another overpriced house. Also, like Leebo stated, the property taxes go up because of this. It's not like these insane housing prices mean you'll be retiring rich. If anything it's going to get some people in trouble as they turn that fantasy value in for a home equity loan.

The longer this goes on, the more sure I am that there is a bubble, and it WILL pop. I don't care what the matket says my home is worth (which BTW is about $400,000 in WI), I'm staying here until I retire and I'm happy we got in before the prices really started to go up.

[dbdynsty25]

Why are you so happy about it? This is something I do not understand.

Well here you go. My mom moved to Vegas about two years ago. She bought a house for 280k...now, two years later, it's worth over 550k. So, she takes her 220k and puts it down on a house in Arizona and she has no mortgage (unless she gets something worth more than that).

What part of that is hard to understand? It's free money and it gets you out from under a mortgage that you will be paying off for 30 years. Sounds ok to me.

Edit: I mean she takes her 270k...not 220...my math is strugglin' today.

[bkrich83]

Why are you so happy about it? This is something I do not understand.

Well here you go. My mom moved to Vegas about two years ago. She bought a house for 280k...now, two years later, it's worth over 550k. So, she takes her 220k and puts it down on a house in Arizona and she has no mortgage (unless she gets something worth more than that).

What part of that is hard to understand? It's free money and it gets you out from under a mortgage that you will be paying off for 30 years. Sounds ok to me.

Exactly. Or I take the massive amount of equity I had in my house, re-invest it in to other properties and make money hand over fist.

[matthewk]

Why are you so happy about it? This is something I do not understand.

Well here you go. My mom moved to Vegas about two years ago. She bought a house for 280k...now, two years later, it's worth over 550k. So, she takes her 220k and puts it down on a house in Arizona and she has no mortgage (unless she gets something worth more than that).

What part of that is hard to understand? It's free money and it gets you out from under a mortgage that you will be paying off for 30 years. Sounds ok to me.

Edit: I mean she takes her 270k...not 220...my math is strugglin' today.

That works if you're moving to an area that has had a completely different level of appreciation, but if you are staying in the same area, then you're selling a home that's doubled in value for a new home that cost 1/2 as much before.

My point is that in any area, everyone's homes are going up at the same rate, so in that case it's not free money as long as you're staying in the same area.

[Dave]

In my case, appreciation is great because otherwise I wouldn't get in the market. We paid for closing costs and that is it, no down payment. If the folks across the road got the $20K more than we paid, then we have a down payment for our next home, can pay off the car, etc.

If the market up here wasn't growing, we'd keep renting and saving up for however long it took to get to a good level for a down payment.

It is all BS though, for many of the reasons you mentioned. Why are $300MM homes up here suddenly worth $400MM? Because of people like the ones who made about $80MM on the townhome we bought decided to go house shopping.

Of course, if the bubble bursts, I'm F'd.

[HouOilers]

In my case, appreciation is great because otherwise I wouldn't get in the market. We paid for closing costs and that is it, no down payment. If the folks across the road got the $20K more than we paid, then we have a down payment for our next home, can pay off the car, etc.

If the market up here wasn't growing, we'd keep renting and saving up for however long it took to get to a good level for a down payment.

It is all BS though, for many of the reasons you mentioned. Why are $300MM homes up here suddenly worth $400MM? Because of people like the ones who made about $80MM on the townhome we bought decided to go house shopping.

Of course, if the bubble bursts, I'm F'd.

I am a bit young and uninformed about the real estate thing so when you say the bubble bursts youll be f'd, what do you mean? What happens when the bubble bursts? People can't pay their homes or are stuck with them paying a high price? Please explain.

[10spro]

I am a bit young and uninformed about the real estate thing so when you say the bubble bursts youll be f'd, what do you mean? What happens when the bubble bursts? People can't pay their homes or are stuck with them paying a high price? Please explain. [/quote]



I think it's definitely a sellers market out there. Most people know that the prices are overinflated so for those 1st time buyers the question is whether to wait until the market collapses, or invest now. The other part people can't control is how banks are going to react with the mortgage rates. Say the market comes down, I think that mortage rates will eventually go up to the point that buyers will think twice about investing in a property. You basically pay your mortgage term with the agreement you have with your local bank, whether it's an open or close mortgage.

[Dave]

If our townhome's value drops below what we paid for it, we'll be upside down, much like if you drive a new car off the lot without putting much money down.

We'd then have to put part of our savings for the next home back into the townhome just to pay it off. When you factor in realtor fees and all that, it could be spendy.

And, from my perspective, first-time home buyers are buying a monthly payment for the most part, not a $200MM property. So if interest rates keep going up, the amount of people new to the market that can afford the $200MM property's monthly payment goes down. And so the slide of the value can begin...

I get a headache just thinking about the bad scenarios.